Episode 749 | Senator Tom Udall Part 2

Episode 749 | Senator Tom Udall Part 2


>>THIS WEEK, THE U.S.
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY ROLLED OUT A NEW PLAN
TO CUT CARBON EMISSIONS BY 30% BY THE YEAR 2030.
ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND MANY DEMOCRATS PRAISED THE
EXECUTIVE ORDER BY PRESIDENT OBAMA, BUT REPUBLICANS
PREDICTED MORE JOB LOSSES AND INCREASED ENERGY COSTS.
I INTERVIEWED SENATOR TOM UDALL BEFORE THIS
ANNOUNCEMENT, BUT WE TALKED AT LENGTH ABOUT THE IMPACT
OF CLIMATE CHANGE IN NEW MEXICO, AND HIS SUPPORT FOR
REDUCING EMISSIONS. MR. UDALL ISSUED A STATEMENT
THIS WEEK CALLING OBAMA’S PROPOSAL AN OPPORTUNITY TO
SPUR INNOVATION AND JOB CREATION AND TAP WHAT NEW
MEXICO DOES WELL, SUCH AS SOLAR, WIND AND BIOFUELS.
>>SENATOR, JUST A SIMPLE QUESTION RIGHT OFF THE TOP.
THE DEBATE OVER CLIMATE CHANGE, IS IT OVER IN YOUR
MIND? DO YOU BELIEVE IT’S CAUSED
BY MANMADE EFFORTS?>>I THINK THE SCIENCE,
GENE, IS VERY SOLID. I THINK WE ARE SEEING ON THE
GROUND, RIGHT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, CONCRETE EVIDENCE.
SO I REALLY THINK THE DEBATE IS OVER, AND I THINK THE
INTERESTING THING TO WATCH IS WITHIN ALL THE POLITICAL
ARENA, WE’RE STARTING TO SEE FEWER AND FEWER DENIERS, THE
OUTRIGHT DENIERS, AND PEOPLE COMING OUT WITH DIFFERENT
POSITIONS. I MEAN, THEY MAY SAY, IT’S
TOO LATE, BUT THEY’RE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT IT’S
HAPPENING, THEY’RE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT HUMAN
BEINGS HAVE PLAYED A BIG ROLE IN THIS SINCE THE
INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION AND THE CARBON POLLUTION THAT’S
OCCURRED.>>HAVE YOU SAID ON THE
FLOOR, HAVE YOU SAID RIGHT ON THE SENATOR FLOOR THAT
YOU DO BELIEVE IT’S CAUSED BY MANMADE EFFORTS?
>>YES. WELL, LET ME TALK JUST A
MINUTE ABOUT WHAT WE DID. WE WERE BECOMING FRUSTRATED
WITH OUR FRIENDS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, THE
REPUBLICANS, AND SO WE SAID, WELL, HOW DO WE REALLY
ENGAGE IN A THOUGHTFUL WAY? SO 30 OF US DECIDED TO COME
TO THE FLOOR OF THE SENATE AND DO AN ALL-NIGHTER.
YOU KNOW, WE DIDN’T WANT — HARRY REID HAS SPECIFIC
THINGS HE’S DOING DURING THE WEEK, BUT WE SAID, AT THE
END OF THE DAY WE’RE GOING TO GO, AND WE WENT FOR 15
HOURS, 30 U.S. SENATORS SHOWED UP, AND WE TALKED.
AND WHY DID WE THINK THAT WAS GOING TO ENGAGE THE
OTHER SIDE? BECAUSE THE TRADITION IN THE
SENATE IS IF A DEMOCRAT SPEAKS, A REPUBLICAN GETS TO
SPEAK, AND IT’S BACK AND FORTH.
IT’S A DEBATE, IT’S ALWAYS A DEBATE.
WE ONLY, IN 15 HOURS, WITH 30 SENATORS SHOWING UP, WE
ONLY HAD ONE REPUBLICAN SHOW UP, AND THAT WAS JAMES
INHOFE, WHO AS YOU KNOW IS THE SENATOR FROM OKLAHOMA
WHO HAS SAID THAT THIS IS A HOAX AND HE REALLY DOUBTS
THE SCIENCE. WE DIDN’T HAVE ANYBODY ELSE
SHOW UP. SO WE’RE TRYING TO CONTINUE
TO THINK OF WAYS THAT WE CAN ENGAGE AND PULL PEOPLE OUT,
BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY, IN MY MIND, TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
THIS LEGISLATIVELY IS TO DO IT IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.
I MEAN, YOU SEE WITH MANY THINGS THAT GET PASSED,
WHERE ONLY ONE SIDE PASSES IT, IT DOESN’T MATTER WHICH
SIDE, THEY GET ERODED AND SOMETIMES REPEALED VERY
QUICKLY. AND I COME FROM A TRADITION,
AS YOU KNOW, MY FATHER AND UNCLE ON ENVIRONMENTAL
ISSUES, ON CONSERVATION ISSUES, WERE TOTALLY
BIPARTISAN. I MEAN, THE BIG LAWS WE HAVE
ON THE BOOKS THAT ARE USED NOW TO CLAMP DOWN ON GLOBAL
WARMING AND CLIMATE CHANGE ARE THE ONES THAT CAME OUT
OF THE ’60S AND ’70S IN LARGE BIPARTISAN MARGINS.
CLEAN AIR ACT, CLEAN WATER ACT, WILDERNESS, ENDANGERED
SPECIES. ALL OF THESE WERE LAWS WHERE
BOTH SIDES STEPPED UP AND SAID, WE’VE GOT A PROBLEM,
LET’S PUT SOME LEGISLATION IN PLACE TO MOVE US FORWARD.
>>IS THAT A POSSIBILITY IN THIS CLIMATE TODAY?
I HEAR YOUR POINT. I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS.
YOU THINK ABOUT THE GREAT SOCIETY STUFF, AND WE
FORGET, THERE WERE 68 DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE AT
THAT TIME. THAT HELPS.
THAT’S NOT POSSIBLE FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA NOW.
>>THAT’S TRUE.>>IT’S JUST NOT POSSIBLE.
SO WHAT CAN WE DO IN THIS CLIMATE, THE POLITICAL
CLIMATE, ON CLIMATE CHANGE? IS ANYTHING DOABLE AT THIS
POINT, EVEN IF YOU’RE HEARING SILENCE FROM
REPUBLICANS AT THIS POINT?>>WELL, THERE ARE A NUMBER
OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE JUST SINCE I CAME INTO
THE SENATE. FIRST, LET’S START WITH THE
RECOVERY ACT. WE INVESTED $85 BILLION IN
RENEWABLE ENERGY, AND THAT ENDED UP IN LOAN GUARANTEES
AND MANY OTHER KINDS OF PROJECTS THAT WOULD ALLOW
COMPANIES TO MOVE FORWARD, TO EXPERIMENT AND WORK IN
THIS AREA OF RENEWABLE ENERGY.
THAT’S THE BIGGEST INVESTMENT IN RENEWABLE
ENERGY IN OUR HISTORY. WE MOVED VERY AGGRESSIVELY
ON MILEAGE STANDARDS. PRESIDENT OBAMA WENT OUTSIDE
EVEN THAT AGGRESSIVE EFFORT, AND HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH
THE AUTO COMPANIES AND SAID, DOG GONE IT, WE’RE GOING TO
PULL EVERYBODY TOGETHER, AND HE’S GOT IT UP TO 54 MILES
PER GALLON. AND ALL THE AUTO COMPANIES,
THE BIG THREE, ANYWAY, ARE FOCUSED IN AND READY TO GO
ON THAT, AND ARE SAYING, WE’RE GOING TO MEET THAT
GOAL. THAT SAVES A LOT OF FUEL.
FUEL YOU DON’T BURN KEEPS THE CARBON POLLUTION DOWN.
SO YOU HAVE THAT HAPPENING. THEN THE PRESIDENT
PROMULGATED SOME RULES. THERE’S RULES ON MERCURY.
YOU KNOW, MANY OF OUR STREAMS WE CAN’T FISH IN NEW
MEXICO BECAUSE THE FISH ARE POLLUTED WITH MERCURY.
SO THE CONTROLS THAT YOU PUT ON THERE.
THE VISIBILITY CONTROLS ARE OUT THERE.
AND THEN IN ADDITION, THE ADMINISTRATION, THROUGH THE
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, IS MOVING FORWARD ON
POWER PLANTS. THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTOR OF
GREENHOUSE GASES ARE THESE POWER PLANTS.
40% OF THE EMISSIONS COME FROM THE POWER PLANTS.
AND SO THEY’VE GOT TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACT, AND HE IS
PUTTING IN PLACE A REGULATORY EFFORT TO SAY —
THEY HAVEN’T REVEALED EXACTLY WHAT IT IS, BUT MY
GUESS IS IT WILL BE WELL THOUGHT OUT, AND WHAT IT’S
GOING TO DO IS PUT THE BURDEN ON THEM TO TRY TO
CLEAN UP THE CARBON POLLUTION AND MOVE TO MORE
SUSTAINABLE ENERGY.>>WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT
THERE IS BEHAVIOR CHANGE, WHICH IS INTERESTING.
THERE’S CONSUMER BEHAVIOR CHANGE, AND WE’LL TALK ABOUT
THAT IN A SECOND, BUT THERE’S INDUSTRY BEHAVIOR
CHANGE, AND THERE’S INCENTIVES AND
DISINCENTIVES, OF COURSE, IN TERMS OF MONEY.
BUT THINGS HAVEN’T REALLY SEEMED TO START PUSHING
FORWARD ON THE INDUSTRY SIDE OF BEHAVIOR.
IS IT, IN FACT, POSSIBLE THAT THE CONSUMER SIDE IS
WHERE THE GOLD IS, SO TO SPEAK, FOR BEHAVIOR CHANGE,
AS OPPOSED TO INDUSTRY? AND IF SO, WHAT DO WE NEED
TO DO AS CONSUMERS?>>WELL, LET ME JUMP BACK
AND SAY, YOU KNOW, FROM THE START, WHEN I STARTED IN THE
SENATE, I THINK THERE WAS A HIGH AWARENESS, BUT I THINK
WE’VE SEEN AN INCREASING LEVEL OF CONSUMER ENGAGEMENT
IN THIS WHOLE ISSUE. WE’RE NO. 4 IN THE COUNTRY
IN TERMS OF SOLAR. I’M RUNNING INTO PEOPLE ALL
THE TIME PUTTING SOLAR ON THEIR BUSINESS, SOLAR ON
THEIR HOME, TRYING TO SHOP IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY
LESSEN THEIR CARBON FOOTPRINT.
AND THE ONE — YOUR INITIAL QUESTION, THE ONE OTHER
THING, GENE, THAT I’D LIKE TO GO BACK TO, THE STATES,
WHEN YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF DEADLOCK, WE’VE SEEN A LOT
OF THINGS HAPPEN. THE PRESIDENT CAN ACT.
NOW, IF WE DON’T STAND UP ON THOSE REGULATIONS, THOSE
COULD BE REPEALED. BUT I THINK WE’VE HAD A
COUPLE OF VOTES SO FAR, AND I THINK FROM WHAT WE’VE SEEN
AT THIS POINT, WE LIKE HIM MOVING FORWARD ON THIS.
AND WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT MOVES OUT AND
HOW THE PUBLIC SUPPORT IS. BUT THE OTHER BEAUTY IN OUR
DEMOCRACY OF A FEDERAL SYSTEM, WHERE YOU HAVE THE
STATES ABLE TO ACT, 30 STATES HAVE RENEWABLE
ELECTRICITY STANDARDS, AND SO THEY HAVE SAID TO THEIR
POWER COMPANIES, WE WANT YOU TO START ON RENEWABLE
ELECTRICITY STANDARDS AND START AT A LEVEL OF, SAY,
10%, AND OVER TIME MOVE TO 15% AND 20%.
CALIFORNIA IS NOW GOING TO 30%.
AND SO TO THEIR OWN POWER COMPANIES WITHIN THEIR
STATES, STATES ARE SAYING, CLEAN UP YOUR ACT, GET ON
TOP OF THIS CARBON POLLUTION.
AND SO ONCE AGAIN, PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK AT EVERYTHING
THAT’S HAPPENING, LIKE YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.
THE CONSUMERS ON THE ONE HAND, WHAT THE STATES ARE
DOING, WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO DO,
AND WHAT WE’VE ALREADY DONE SINCE 2008.
AND THERE’S GOING TO BE MORE TO DO, I THINK, AND PART OF
IT — YOU SOUNDED A LITTLE BIT DOUBTFUL IN TERMS OF US
WORKING TOGETHER. I THINK WE JUST NEED TO GET
UP EVERY DAY AND — WHAT I DO EVERY DAY, I LISTEN TO
THE OTHER GUYS, I LISTEN TO THEM MAKE THE SPEECHES, AND
I SAY — AND WE’RE IN COMMITTEES, WE’RE WITH EACH
OTHER, WHO ARE THE ONES THAT ARE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT THIS,
AND THEN APPROACH THEM AND VISIT WITH THEM AND TRY TO
MOVE IT ALONG. SO I GET UP EVERY MORNING
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WHO ARE THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN
WORK WITH TO BUILD THAT BIPARTISANSHIP, AND THAT’S
WHAT WE NEED EVERY SENATOR DOING.
>>SURE. THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, THERE’S BEEN SOME
SIGNIFICANT THINGS OUT THERE IN THE NEWS.
THEY PUT CLIMATE CHANGE REALLY OUT THERE.
ONE, OF COURSE, IS THE ANTARCTIC ICE SHELF.
IT’S AMAZING HOW THAT’S GONE AROUND THE WORLD.
PEOPLE JUST SEEM TO GET WHAT’S GOING ON NOW.
BUT I THINK THE OTHER PART OF IT, TOO, IS THE WHITE
HOUSE REPORT ON CLIMATE CHANGE A FEW WEEKS AGO, AS
WELL. VERY, VERY, VERY DETAILED.
I TOOK IT AS A VERY FRIGHTENING REPORT WHEN I
THINK ABOUT NEW MEXICO SPECIFICALLY, BECAUSE IT
BROKE OUT SECTIONS OF THE COUNTRY.
THE SOUTHEAST IS GOING TO HAVE THEIR PROBLEMS WITH
FLOODING. BUT WE HAVE A WHOLE OTHER
DEAL HERE. WE’RE ALMOST GROUND ZERO FOR
DROUGHT, AS IT STANDS NOW, AND THE VULNERABILITY IN THE
ENVIRONMENT. ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE
CONCERNED, FARMERS, DAIRY FARMERS, EVERYONE IS
VULNERABLE AT THIS POINT IT SEEMS TO ME, SENATOR.
IS THERE SOMETHING WE COULD BE DOING DIFFERENTLY HERE IN
THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO IN YOUR VIEW TO GET AHEAD OF
THE CURVE ON CLIMATE CHANGE? BECAUSE FEED PRICES CAN’T
KEEP CLIMBING. NOBODY CAN AFFORD THAT.
FOOD PRICES CAN’T KEEP CLIMBING.
IT’S DIFFICULT. IN YOUR VIEW, IS THERE
ANYTHING ELSE WE COULD DO DIFFERENTLY HERE IN THE
STATE?>>FIRST OF ALL, LET’S
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE ARE IN THE BULLS-EYE.
WITH THE COMPUTER MODELING AND THE PREDICTIONS FROM
THOSE MAJOR REPORTS, NEW MEXICO, AS YOU SAY, IS
GROUND ZERO WHEN IT COMES TO THE WARMING SIDE, THE
DROUGHT SIDE, THE DRYNESS SIDE.
AND THE WAY I TRY TO VISUALIZE THIS AND TELL
PEOPLE IS, IMAGINE NEW MEXICO BEING, IF YOU
COULD — YOU KNOW HOW WITH YOUR MOUSE YOU CAN CLICK ON
SOMETHING AND YOU CAN DRAG IT?
THE WEATHER, IF WE JUST GO BUSINESS AS USUAL, YOU KNOW,
WAY DOWN THE LINE, 2075, SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE —
LOS ALAMOS IS SAYING WE’LL LOSE ALL OUR FORESTS IN
2050. BUT IF YOU DRAG NEW MEXICO
300 MILES TO THE SOUTH, YOU’RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
CHIHUAHUA DESERT, AND FOR MOST OF OUR STATE, THAT’S
THE KIND OF WEATHER YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE.
SO THAT’S WHAT WE NEED TO REALIZE.
AND THE REASON I BROUGHT THIS UP FIRST, BEFORE YOU
SAY WHAT CAN PEOPLE DO, IS PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK AROUND
THEM AND SEE, WE’RE GETTING SEVERE RAIN STORMS.
THEY HAD SO MUCH RAIN THAT THEY HAD A 500 YEAR FLOOD IN
RIO RANCHO. WE’RE GETTING CATASTROPHIC
FIRES THAT BURN MORE ACREAGE, AND MANY FLOODS
AFTER THAT. AND WE READ RECENTLY HOW
THAT POLLUTED THE RIO GRANDE.
WE’RE GETTING A NUMBER — JUST AS YOU MENTIONED, THE
CATTLE HERDS ARE DOWN 50% BECAUSE OF THE DROUGHT.
AND SO THEN BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, WHAT CAN WE DO?
WELL, WE’RE BACK IN THE ARENA AGAIN OF PEOPLE
WORKING WITH THEIR LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS.
YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATURE HAS BEEN TRYING TO WEIGH IN
ON THIS. THEY PASSED RESOLUTIONS
TELLING US TO WORK ON THIS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.
THEY ARE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GO OUT IN THEIR OWN LIVES
AND LOOK AT THEIR CARBON FOOTPRINT AND TRY TO LESSEN
IT. AND SO THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT EVERY FAMILY NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT, AND THROUGH
YOUR LIFE YOU CAN SEE WAYS TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
THE PEOPLE THAT BUILD OUR BUILDINGS NEED TO THINK
DIFFERENTLY. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT I’VE SEEN AROUND THE WORLD, I DON’T KNOW IF
YOU’VE EVER SEEN THIS WHEN YOU’VE TRAVELED, BUT IF YOU
WALK OUT OF A ROOM IN A HOTEL IN SOME OTHER
COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD, THE CARD THAT YOU USE, YOU PULL
IT OUT OF THE SLOT, AND ALL THE ENERGY SHUTS DOWN.
AND I’VE ASKED PEOPLE OVER HERE, I’VE SAID, WELL, WHY
CAN’T WE HAVE THE SAME THING SO THAT IF YOU LEAVE YOUR
MOTEL ROOM, THE LIGHTS ALL SHUT OFF, RATHER THAN YOU
HAVING TO GO AROUND INDIVIDUALLY AND SHUT OFF
EVERY ONE, AND THEY SAID, OH, WE CAN DO THAT EASILY,
WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY, BUT WE JUST BUILT THIS BUILDING
TOO QUICKLY. WE NEEDED IT TO BE DONE
QUICKLY. SO WE NEED TO THINK, EACH OF
US: ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, CONTRACTORS, PEOPLE THAT
BUILD HOMES, AND THE HOMEOWNER, THEMSELVES.
IF THEY MOVE INTO A PLACE, IF THEY RENOVATE, THESE ARE
THE KINDS OF THINGS THEY CAN DO TO HELP OUT, BECAUSE IT’S
GOING TO REQUIRE THAT KIND OF EFFORT BECAUSE IT’S SO
PERVASIVE.>>IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE IT IS
AN EFFORT OF LEADERSHIP, AS WELL, IF I’M HEARING YOU
CORRECTLY. WE DO TAKE OUR, THE TERM
MARCHING ORDERS MAY BE A LITTLE STIFF, BUT LEADERS
LEAD AND FOLLOWERS FOLLOW. YOUR OWN SENSE OF LEADERSHIP
ON THIS. I HEAR WHAT YOU’RE SAYING
ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE DOING IN THE SENATE AND SUCH, BUT
WHEN YOU TALK TO FOLKS AROUND NEW MEXICO, DO YOU
HAVE THE ABILITY TO REALLY PUT IT TO THEM AND SAY, TELL
ME ABOUT YOUR BUILDING, HOW L.E.A.D. CERTIFIED IS THIS
BUILDING? TELL ME ABOUT YOUR HOME,
WHAT DO YOU DO IN YOUR HOME? WHAT ARE YOU HEARING OUT
THERE WHEN YOU USE YOUR OWN LEADERSHIP ABILITIES OUT
THERE?>>I THINK WHAT I HEAR IS
THAT PEOPLE THINK THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.
THEY WANT TO HELP WITH IT. THEY ALSO WANT LEADERSHIP AT
THE NATIONAL LEVEL, AT THE STATE LEVEL, AND AT THE
LOCAL LEVEL. AND ONE OF THE REMARKABLE
THINGS, GENE, IS CITIES AND COUNTIES HAVE BEEN THE MOST
AGGRESSIVE AT PUTTING IN PLACE A REGIMEN TO REDUCE
THEIR CARBON FOOTPRINT. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT’S
OUT THERE IN A BIG WAY, AND PEOPLE DON’T SEE HOW MUCH
MOMENTUM IT’S BUILDING. THERE’S THE OLD THING THEY
TALK ABOUT IN TERMS OF A TIPPING POINT.
I THINK WE’RE REALLY BUILDING, AND AT SOME POINT
HERE IT WILL HIT A TIPPING POINT, AND IT’S GOING TO BE
MUCH EASIER TO DEVELOP THAT CONSENSUS THAT WE TALKED
ABOUT THAT LOOKS SO DIFFICULT RIGHT NOW.
>>TELL ME ABOUT YOUR LEADERSHIP ON BUILDING A
SENSE OF URGENCY, AS WELL. I HAVE TO IMAGINE IN YOUR
POSITION, IT’S HARD TO BE A BELL-RINGER.
A LOT OF FOLKS DON’T LIKE TO HAVE A BELL RUNG.
IT SOUNDS LIKE PANIC. IT MAKES PEOPLE AFRAID.
THAT’S PART OF THE ART OF POLITICS, THOUGH, ISN’T IT,
TO RING THAT BELL?>>OH, ABSOLUTELY.
>>SO YOUR OWN SENSE OF BRINGING URGENCY, DO YOU
STRUGGLE WITH THIS? DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU’RE
MAKING PEOPLE A LITTLE TOO FEARFUL SOMETIMES WHEN YOU
TALK IN THIS MANNER, OR NOT URGENT ENOUGH WHEN YOU
CONSIDER YOUR OWN LEADERSHIP?
>>I THINK FOR ME, I KNOW HOW URGENT IT IS, AND SO I’M
TRYING TO PROVIDE THE LEADERSHIP AT EVERY LEVEL.
BUT I TRY TO LISTEN TO PEOPLE AND SEE WHAT THEIR
FEARS ARE. WHAT IS IT THAT THEY’RE
WORRIED ABOUT, AND THEN TRY TO ADDRESS THAT FEAR.
BECAUSE MANY TIMES WHAT THEY’RE WORRIED ABOUT ISN’T
REALLY SOMETHING THAT’S GOING TO BE THAT MUCH OF A
PROBLEM IF WE ALL JUST PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND
FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS. AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, PEOPLE
HAVE RAISED THE ISSUE, AND THEY’VE GONE OVERBOARD ON
THIS, THAT IF WE PUT IN SOMETHING TO DEAL WITH THIS,
THAT THE ELECTRICITY — I TALKED ABOUT POWER
COMPANIES. YOU’RE GOING TO SAY, THE
ELECTRICITY RATES ARE GOING TO BE SO EXPENSIVE THAT WE
WON’T BE ABLE TO AFFORD POWER AND THAT’S GOING TO
HURT OUR QUALITY OF LIFE.>>SURE.
>>I DON’T THINK THAT’S A REALITY.
BUT IT’S UP TO A LEADER TO STAND UP AND TAKE IT ON AND
SAY, THIS ISN’T GOING TO HAPPEN.
WE MAY SEE SOME INCREASE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF WE
DO THE POLICY RIGHT, WE MAY ACTUALLY SEE A REBATE BACK
TO CONSUMERS. I MEAN, WE DO THIS IN A LOT
OF AREAS RIGHT NOW. WE HELP THE MOST VULNERABLE
WITH THEIR ENERGY COSTS RIGHT NOW IN VARIOUS
PROGRAMS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS.
SO WE CAN TWEAK THOSE THINGS AND DEAL WITH THAT AND
MAKE — THE ISSUE HERE IS MAKING IT FAIR FOR
EVERYBODY, AND THAT’S JUST TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT.
>>I HAVE A LAST QUESTION FOR YOU.
I KNOW YOU’RE TIGHT ON TIME HERE A LITTLE BIT.
WATER COMPACTS, A BIG DEAL FOR US COMING UP IN THE NEXT
20-25 YEARS. IT’S GOING TO TAKE A LONG
TIME TO FIGURE THIS OUT. IS THERE A CONGRESSIONAL
ROLE IN FIGURING OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH OUR WATER COMPACTS
BETWEEN STATES? TEXAS, WE’VE GOT OUR
CONTACTS, AND COLORADO CERTAINLY, FOR NEW MEXICO.
BECAUSE THAT WORD VULNERABILITY IS OUT THERE
AGAIN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WATER COMPACTS.
WHAT IS THE ROLE FOR OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON THAT?
>>YOU CAN SEE BY THE LEADERSHIP THAT I PROVIDED.
FIRST OF ALL, WE WENT DOWN TO NEW MEXICO STATE, IT HAS
THIS EXCELLENT WATER RESOURCES INSTITUTE, AND WE
PUT ON, WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY, A WATER
CONFERENCE. WE HAD ALL THE FORMER STATE
ENGINEERS. WE HAD THE BIGGEST THINKERS
IN THE STATE ON WATER. ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS REALLY
WERE THERE, AND WE’VE COME OUT NOW WITH A WATER REPORT
THAT’S ON OUR WEBSITE. WE WANT PEOPLE TO INTERACT.
AND NOT ONLY IS IT A REPORT, IT’S ACTUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
ON WHAT WE SHOULD DO. AND NOW WE’RE TRYING TO
GAUGE WITH PEOPLE WHAT THEY THINK ARE THE ONES THAT THEY
CAN LIVE WITH, THAT THEY THINK WILL BE THE MOST
PRODUCTIVE, AND HOW THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD.
SO I THINK THERE’S A BIG ROLE FOR THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT TO PLAY. I DON’T THINK THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT SHOULD SUPPLEMENT WHAT THE STATES DO NOW WITH
THE STATE ENGINEER, THE ADJUDICATIONS, THE WATER
LAW. I MEAN, THE HISTORY IN THE
WEST IS OF GROWING THE WATER LAW AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.
AND AS JOHN WESLEY POWELL SAID, WHO EXPLORED THE WEST,
REMARKABLE GUY, HE SAID, THIS IS AN ARID LAND AND WE
OUGHT TO ORGANIZE AROUND WATERSHEDS.
AND WE’RE DOING THAT MORE AND MORE NOW.
SO I THINK IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE TO TAKE NATIONAL
IDEAS AND TRY TO TRANSPLANT THEM TO A REGION WHERE WE
HAVE VERY SPECIFIC NEEDS IN THIS REGION, AND WE NEED TO
URGE THE NATIONAL LEGISLATURE TO ACT WITH US
SO THAT WE CAN FULFILL THE DREAMS WE HAVE AND WANT TO
HAVE THE OPPORTUNITIES, BUT ALSO GROW IN SUCH A WAY
WHERE WE’RE CONSERVING OUR WATER AND ABLE TO CONTINUE
TO GROW.>>SENATOR UDALL, THANK YOU
FOR COMING AND SPENDING SOME TIME WITH US ON THIS ONE.
IT’S A BIG ISSUE FOR NEW MEXICO.
AND PLEASE COME BACK WHEN SOME MORE ON WATER GETS OUT
THERE. WE’D LOVE TO TALK TO YOU
SOME MORE.>>IT’S MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU.>>IT’S GOOD TO SEE YOU
AGAIN.

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