How writing got civilized – History of Writing Systems #3 (Logographs)

How writing got civilized – History of Writing Systems #3 (Logographs)


Pictures for things and even ideas gave us proto-writing. But we can do better! It’s time to invent full-fledged writing. You’re ready to grab that chisel and get
your pictographic and ideographic carving on. Then someone… inventive… comes along.
Your system is artistic, but it’s not practical enough for her. Gone are the days of Lascaux. The world outside
this cave is changing, she says. Crops, cities, rulers, markets, and she needs a way to keep
track of it all. She likes your icons. She can use them for goats and pots, fields and
even long walks through the desert. But she has an incredible practical streak. She takes
those goats and those pots, and starts to tally the items she’s recording. One goat,
she says. Then two goats, three goats, four goats. Notice what she’s done. These aren’t
simple depictions anymore. They’re not just ideas. She’s reading one word for each symbol.
She’s encoding language. Let’s slow down here, because it’s hard
to overstate the importance of this “Major Moments in the History of Writing”. These
goat counts are word-symbols now – logographs. Pictographs can be visualized. Ideographs
can be imagined. But logographs can be directly and consistently read. Logographic systems emerge and flourish in
the early civilizations of Mesopotamia, Egypt, China, and Mexico. Characters for people,
animals, land, crops, hundreds – even thousands – of logographs for everything under the sun
and moon, including the sun and the moon. Even after all these millennia, if you squint
hard enough you can still pick out the symbols scratched into weathered artifacts bearing
the world’s early scripts: a Chinese turtle, an Egyptian house, a Sumerian head, a Sumerian
head eating bread, a Mayan jaguar. And, in each of these places, in all of these languages,
these were read as words. We know what these logographs mean, and we can put that meaning
into words. The world is now in a race to fill itself
with logographs. But which humans started this craze?
Well, the Mesoamericans started writing more than 2900 years ago. Some Chinese characters
are at least 3200 years old. Writing popped up in Crete 4000 years ago. But the two clear
contenders are Egyptian Hieroglyphs and Sumerian Cuneiform, both a whopping 5000 years old!
Minimum. It’s common to say that the Egyptians stole the idea of writing from Mesopotamia
and just came up with their own glyphs – common, but not demonstrated. For a while, monogenesis made sense. This
is idea that one civilization was king of all the writing, that writing started once
in Mesopotamia, where people pressed a stylus into wet clay to make these wedge (cuneus)
shapes (forms): Cuneiform. So the monogenesis story goes, everyone else steals Cuneiform
and reskins it to fit their needs. It’s not a popular story these days, given what
we know about Chinese and especially Mesoamerican writing, along with some very early Egyptian
finds. Whoever’s first, in these early days of
writing, all the civilizations start manufacturing hordes of logographs, so many in fact that
they unwittingly unleash an epic memory burden on budding logographers, from would-be ancient scribes to beginning students of Mandarin Chinese. Do they really need this many characters to write? Surely there’s an easier way!

36 thoughts on “How writing got civilized – History of Writing Systems #3 (Logographs)

  1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_signs_in_China There are Chinese writings from 6000 BC! BTW, this video is very interesting!! (The list of Chinese Characters in the last part is actually taken from a Japanese source, though, it uses characters simplified by the Japanese 😛 But I guess it's not important, because it still describes well the last question, for the fourth video! I can't wait!)

  2. actually, the mayan writing sytsem is based on syllables. Only relatively few words actually had their own picture to depict them. Most were actually encoded as the phoncetic words they are.

  3. Wait a second, how is cuneiform made out of 2D golf tees, if the game of golf had not even been invented yet? Aliens I say! Time traveling Aliens!

  4. 萬 is not a turtle, it's a scorpion carrying many baby scorpions on its back. The character for turtle is 龜

  5. There are cuneiform like marks inscribed in the swazi land mines in africa i have not carbon dated them my self so cant say how old they are for sure hehehe.

  6. I love how she leads in the sentence as being singular but then completelly fucks with the rythm of her speach and yells "MAJOR MOMENTS IN THE HISTORY OR WRITING" not the plural. I just fucking love that, it's the same part of me that just loves hearing JHON CENA being placed wherever it fits XD

  7. It would have been really cool if you would have mentioned Tenevil. Writing perhaps does not even require a complex urban civilisation. Tenevil was a chukchi reindeer herder who independently developed a logographic writing with around a thousand characters.

  8. I just realized: what's the difference (in memory) between words made with letters, and Chinese (or any other system) hieroglyphs. With letters, you have to memorize spelling, with hieroglyphs, you have to memorize how they look. So it's not actually that confusing!

  9. Awesome video. I love your linguistic and historical education, unique perspective, and fascinating ideas on alternative history. Cheers

  10. Logographic system also present in India in the Indus valley civilization over 5000 yrs ago. Although it could've been a bit different than those know logographic systems since the ones from Indus valley civilization is yet to be deciphered.

  11. I find it hard to believe somebody make an argument for monogenesis when sumeric and egyptian writing looks so different, even though we're on a pictographic stage.

  12. It seems like they altered the history part but they were correct in explanation of how it works or yeah

  13. You call a representational depiction of a goat an icon or idea or symbol, But the drawing/depiction in itself is NOT any of these,,it is just a n image/sign in the shape of a goat depicting/representing a goat, Of course the image could be used as a symbol eg, a goat god or iconographically eg, representing lust, Or it could be used as a logograph meaning goat or lust,,,or anything You say goat counts are word symbols,,,they are not words and not symbols,,they are just signs, C,S, Peirce used sign & symbol as inter changeable terms but that is wrong, Mayan is NOT logogrraphic except for a few signs, Mayan is phonetic not logographic The more common term for monogenesis is hyperdiffusionism, Your presentation is superficial inaccurate and patronising

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *