21 thoughts on “Jordan Peterson on Collectivism, Individualism and Western Civilization

  1. I could so do without the swelling strings in the background. It's distraction and entertainment that's not necessary. Is Peterson not engaging enough?

  2. Jordan…….what a long and treacherous journey you have taken, to get your soul in all its wholeheartedness and genuine valor, to this point — this pinnacle of expanding awareness — that pierces the human heart with revelations too dark to mutter without reverence and grace, and revelations so bright that at times one might feel they've already crossed over :::: and this expanding awareness, that at once silences the mind and ignites the heart is meant to bring one's whole soul into an authentic state of integration. And that is what continuously happens when your Spirit speaks. Whether others' experience these conversions as temporary or everPresent, they're meant to embolden each one of us ::: to stand up ::: to take up our own cross, to stop whining and learn everything we can about our captivity — that we might understand the right-side up of our freedom, through a looking glass that is no longer darkened by our ignorance, fear, or shame. It truly is one hell of a map you've placed in our hands. You had to survive the deep understandings of the underworld and devastating hell realms to get it. And now you may be thrown into a pit for disclosing it. Know that there are individuals who hear you and who see now by the humble light of your noble efforts. ALL of your maps, written or otherwise, have not and will not be in vain — for they profoundly impact us on an individual basis and inspire us to fulfill the measure of our creation. Thank you for your tenacity, grit, humor, and hard work.

  3. Thank you, Jordan, for being so unwavering in your authenticity. Any number of YouTube personalities would have recorded multiple takes and edited them together rather than expose their true, raw feelings on a subject as honestly and courageously as you have. Time and time again. You are an inspiration. Keep speaking truth and exposing the darkness.

  4. "The divine individual is masculine. because the feminine is not individual." Yeah…JP's not a misogynist. smdh

  5. Where Peterson's worldview appear to fail, IMO, is in his overemphasis on the individual. For example, there's growing evidence that we can't ignore a more holistic assessment of trauma: https://medium.com/@ginwright/the-future-of-healing-shifting-from-trauma-informed-care-to-healing-centered-engagement-634f557ce69c 

    He belies the epiphenomenal aspects of groups that can require different kinds of psychological and political/legislative attention and intervention. It's rarely appropriate to allocate core problems to the isolated individual without acknowledging the impact of the epiphenomenal social aspects. Cultural psychology is overturning his perspective with real evidence (even if there are dimensions of temperament that are cross-cultural), because, as Lao Tzu said, "Truly, a cart is worth more than the sum of its parts."

  6. The problem here is where you put your attention. What Peterson belies about collectives is that they are people who have come together to unite about certain ideas (sometimes, with great sacrifice against systemic oppression against their demographics, incontrovertibly evidenced). He's merely chosen to completely focus on where people disagree and that they tend to atomize or even Balkanize over disagreements about subcategories. So what? Science that too. Sure, we will always have epistemic limitations, but eventually, the ideas with less evidence fall away. Complaining about tension in the process is like complaining that getting a root canal hurts, so we shouldn't get them.

  7. Small faction in the west strated to get alarmed with the danger that the western civilization carries for the individual who is part of identity group. They started to allude to this hiatus which engraves the essence of the humanity, and dared to campaign for thus dilemma that isolates the man from his spiritual side. The valuessness in living and nihilism in perception possesses ultimately an ominous hazy futur, wherein the the premise is predicated on the clinical socio-economic structure which those people displayed their data to analysis. They are beseeching their people to bloodily skin their selves off this philosophy which will Destroy the civilization and leave it to ruins after millennia of glory..!

  8. Singularitous causation for the sake of disbanding collectivism, is in of itself, collectivism against modernity, and in order to destroy modern thought, we must either became clans and packs of wolves, or abandon humanity. What he describes is inhuman, equating to matrix like adherence to his justly, ever high reaching moral code. "Unite under the banner of the individual" is the exact statement of the collectivist tyrant, and tyrants are not always cruel.

  9. So the "divine individual" is: necessarily masculine (symbolically at least); the telos to which collective goals are sacrificed; and deviation from the ideal of the divine individual ought to be viciously punished which seems to imply that not only collective goals are to be subordinate to the divine individual but individual goals are as well.

    If this is a correct understanding then:

    1. To call for a society "united under the banner of the [divine] individual" sounds like an open call for fascism.

    2. Seems like an argument against individualism (which, as a collectivist, I really don't mind). The only way I can think to reconcile this apparent argument for collectivism with JBPs stated individualism is that deviations from the ideal of a divine individual necessarily involves doing harm to others and the reason it ought to be punished is to preserve the, I don't know, well being of the individual. I'm not sold that that's a point against collectivism though.

  10. In authentic Christianity, the divine individual is a being of love, the supreme power that brings all life into existence, and deviation from the individual, in this case the divine personality, is not "punished" but those who are on the outside of the Christian paradigm are to be won to the body through love, which is the superior and divine power that will eventually trump all things that divide, denigrate, humiliate, and corrupt. If you ask any true Christian, one who as you point out, doesn’t just “believe” but has chosen to invest their lives without reservation in the order of the divine one, will tell you that their experience is not just a prosaic, adherence to a dry, institutional dogma, but a living, vibrant, dynamic, daily encounter with the person of the divine. You can’t fake that experience. Those who do not have this experience are those who say they believe, but have not, as you say, “staked their lives” on the teachings and the revelation of the divine. They have not “taken the responsibility” to give themselves to the reality of the divine person. Everything we do as humans is based upon belief, whether its getting out of bed in the morning, going to work, buying a pound of potato salad or a house. No belief, no reality. All of the apostles whose writings are in the New Testament are ones who have done that, hence their powerful personal revelations of the divine nature and the divine purpose in the earth. Just thought I’d throw my 2 cents in there.

  11. 16 seconds in and you lost me. "nothing can unite, it only divides" …nothing is literally the absence of existence ergo it can neither unite or divide.

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