Protection & Welfare 2-26-18

Protection & Welfare 2-26-18


– Okay, the meeting for the
Protection & Welfare Committee for Monday February 26, 2018,
in Room 207 is now in session. Members present are Alder Zima, Alder Galvin
and myself Alder Scannell. Alder Dorff is sick and so she
is excused from the meeting. – Motion to approve the agenda. – Motion by Alder Zima.
– Second. – Seconded by Alder Galvin. All in favor say aye.
– Aye. – Opposed? Okay that passes. Motion to approve the minutes. – Motion to approve the minutes. – Motion by Alder Galvin to approve. – Second.
– Second by Alder Zima. All in favor?
– Aye. – Opposed? That carries. On to the meat of the meeting. Number four, Consideration
with possible action on an application for a
“Class B” Combination License by OMG-Kim3, Inc. at 1342 S. Broadway. Currently Packer Stadium Lounge. – Law department has no objections. – We would concur. – Concurs. – Move to approve. – Move to approve by Alder Zima. – Second.
– Second by Alder Galvin. All in favor?
– Aye. – Opposed, okay that passes. And before I get too far
now, everything we do here at the Committee level
is just a recommendation to the Council which will be
meeting next Tuesday, correct? Yes, at 7:00 in the room next door and then the Council
makes the final approval. Item number five Consideration
with possible action on an application for a
“Class B” Combination License by Alejandro Gonzalez-Rico
at 1906 University Avenue. Currently Las Brisas, staff? – Law department has no objections. – Police Department concurs. – This is a new license? Is this somebody else taking
over, is that what it is? – Yes, it’s currently Las Brisas. – And they have a license? – Yeah, so it’s not a new license. – I move to approve. – Motion to prove Alder Zima.
– Second. – Second by Alder Galvin. All in favor?
– Aye. – Opposed? That carries. Item number six Consideration
with possible action on an application for a
“Class B” Combination License by Tenet, LLC at 2475 W. Mason Street. Currently RH & JD, Inc., staff. – Law Department has no objections. – Police Department concurs. – Move to approve. – Move to approve by Alder Zima. – Second.
– Second by Alder Galvin. All in favor?
– Aye. – Opposed? That passes unanimously. On to number seven, Consideration
with possible action on a request by Alder Zima on behalf of the Brown County Tavern League, for the Protection & Welfare Committee and the City consider their
concerns regarding procedures now in place to obtain a
liquor license in Green Bay. Alder Zima do you wanna start with this? – Well, I think you can open the floor, I think the Tavern League knows best what their concerns are you get you know, the rules kind of flip
around back and forth and upside down I think
they they’d like us to consider some changes in rules. but I think they’ll best explain it all. – All right. – I make a motion to open the floor. – Motion to open the floor by Alder Zima. – Second.
– Second by Alder Galvin. All in favor?
– Aye. – Opposed? Okay, the floor is now open. Anyone care to speak
on this please step up and give your name and address. – [Susan] Susan Robinson, 821
South Broadway, Green Bay. I own Bourbon Street here in Green Bay and I’m also past president
of the Brown County Tavern. Thank you to all of you for agreeing for this discussion
tonight, we appreciate it. Thinking with the time you
spend, all of you would know that it used to be called the
liquor licenses were approved is they would apply, it
would go to the Committee, the Police Department would check for any past criminal violations
or business violations, bring in front of the the Committee. Then Committee would decide
if would go to to Council for them to decide. We had, at one time, tried
to pass a law against all you can drink specials
and it failed to pass. And after that it was decided to go with bringing the business plan
to the Police Department and having the meetings with them before it went to Committee. We’re finding a little
problem with that process because of the one of the sheets that they’re asked to fill out. They’re saying this is a voluntary thing, but it is leading to the person that if they don’t agree to all
the items on this sheet that they will not
receive a liquor license. And we take a little
exception to some of it. One of the items on there is
no all-you-can-drink specials. This is something that couldn’t be passed at City Council but yet
they’re being asked not to compete with their neighboring bars who have these specials. They’re also asking to give up rights like handing over videos without subpoena. Being forced to buy expensive ID swipers. Again, I know, the police are gonna say this is voluntary but it’s not really when they feel their license is on the line. They basically feel
blackmailed into signing these. I guess our request is to
look at maybe going back to a little more expedient, proper way of a licensing system. We feel our elected Council should be the ones reviewing the business plans and the police should go
back to informing Committee of their past criminal history or any past business violations. I think the police would agree with me that they have their
hands full fighting crime and to be constantly trying to find time to make meetings with
potential business owners, to decide who should get a
license and who shouldn’t probably really isn’t what
their position should be. Again, we’d like to
see that go back to it. Instead of having this
sheet with the check marks and the signatures, we
were thinking maybe, a sheet that suggests
good business practices and warns them of the
pitfalls that we’ve seen in businesses that have failed or have gotten into trouble with the law and had to come before the Committee. I made just a little
rough draft of kind of what I’m talking about, of
course, yous would come up with your own, if you’ll just indulge me a few more minutes I’ll go right over. Over the years City Council
in the Police Department have seen many establishments
end up with problems with the City which can lead to the loss of your liquor license
and/or your business. In order to help new
businesses avoid these issues, we have compiled a list
of the common pitfalls that seem to lead to this. Number one, intoxicated bartenders. Most of those successful
bars that have remained in business for a long time in Green Bay do not allow their staff to drink on duty, an intoxicated bartender
frequently makes mistakes like not checking IDs
properly, not keeping order in the bar, not getting
the bar closed on time and uses poor judgment on who
should not be served any more. Number two, teaching staff
how to properly check IDs. A common error by bartenders is thinking if someone hands you an
ID they must be of age and they don’t even read it. Underage people know this. The City of Green Bay frequently
does compliance checks to see if your staff is carding properly and the fine for failing
is, you could fill that in. If you want to play it
safe, we suggest you invest in an ID scammer. Number three, practice
responsible serving. Make sure your staff
knows about Green Bay’s Do Not Serve list. These people are a constant
problem for the police when they drink and not
good for your business. If someone comes in
obviously over intoxicated, know that it is illegal to serve them. If someone has had too
many, do not let them drive. We urge you to be aware of
specials like all-you-can-drink that encourage people to overindulge. We also strongly suggest you
join the local Tavern League and participate the safe ride program which will give your
customer a free cab ride home if they are too impaired to drive. Number four, read and know
the liquor license laws which will be given to
you with your license. Too many new proprietors do not, which leads to big problems. Belonging to the Tavern
League is a great resource for questions on our
state laws and keeping up to date on changes to these laws. That’s just kind of, the
general idea of what I’m saying. I think it’s a little more friendly way of bringing new people into
business in Green Bay. We’re not stepping on any laws or rights and yet informing them on ways
other businesses have failed. So that’s pretty much what I have. – Do you have a copy of that. – [Susan] Well, it’s pretty squiggly, but I could definitely type
one up nicer get it to you. – In email, OK, that would be good. Just before, any questions? – Sure. – If you please. – You think the police should be, should go back to fighting crime. – [Susan] I don’t mean that
they aren’t fighting crime. I didn’t mean that in a
slam, mean way at all. I just think they’re short-staffed enough and we have so many
horrible problems out there and I know from potential bar owners, that it gets difficult for
them to get an appointment with the police because they’re so busy. I didn’t wait and anyway need to suggest that they’re not fighting crime right now. – Do you think the police
should then wait for a problem to happen and then react to
it and solve that problem? – Are we solving the
problem with this sheet that they’re having sign,
I don’t believe we are. – I think if we did a study,
I think you would find that the police response
or having to respond to the taverns has gone down significantly since we started this program. Now, am I saying that’s the silver bullet to solve that problem? I’m not.
– Okay. – But I’m saying that
the Police Department attended conferences, Community
Police oriented conferences. – Whoa, whoa, just questions right now. – I’m sorry, nevermind, Were you the, in charge
of the Tavern League when Vincenzi’s was a bar?
– Yes. And, I was actually on
the Protection & Welfare when he was approved and did not agree he should be approved.
– Okay. And how long did it take
for him to lose his license? Or to have it finally taken away? – Two years.
– How many? – Probably, maybe two or three? – It was over three years. And Liquid 8? – I’m not going to comment on Liquid 8. – And do you remember the triple fatality that resulted from over
serving at Liquid 8? – Yes and I am not in
agreement on over serving and neither has Tavern League ever. – OK, the very beginning you said that we try to impose a rule where you couldn’t have all you could drink specials. And you said that’s not fair. – [Susan] It was voted down. – Right, you’re saying that’s not fair. – [Susan] If your neighboring bar can have that special and you can’t. – You can’t badger. – I’m not badgering, I’m asking questions. – When I asked this question.
– Excuse me. – Come on. – [Susan] It’s okay, let him ask, I’m not feeling bullied.
– I know. – It’s okay.
– I’m trying to be a polite guy, if I’m not being polite, please someone tell me. But then later on in your best practices you suggest that
curtailing drink specials. – [Susan] Right, and that’s my thing here. I’m not saying we don’t suggest to them good business practices
and put it in their mind as they’re opening, but I do believe in this market, you can’t have
this bar can have this rules and the bar next door has different rules. – I can certainly understand that. I mean, everyone has to be
on an even playing field. – [Susan] Right, and
that’s what we’re saying. – All right, thank you. – Do you have any questions or? – I was gonna wait until
our speaker was done. – Okay, no questions at this point. A couple of ideas.
– Yep. – [Don] My name is Don Mjelde,
641 N. Huron St. in De Pere. I currently own Richard
Craniums and I’m President of the Brown County Tavern League. I’m kind of taken aback to
hear what Susie was saying because she’s been doing
this for 14 years plus as President the Tavern League and I agree with the fact that
there’s laws and there’s ideas and references on how
you should run your business in Green Bay, and even though the law isn’t like have an all
you could drink special, being able to tell people
hey you shouldn’t do this is it something that should
be attached to the licensing, it’s something that you
should suggest to people, same as you know you should
have something to scan the IDs, or be able to train your
bartenders effectively. And that’s something that
I do every Tavern League meeting that we have. I love training bar owners as to things you can do to kind of help
improve your business. What I’m looking for is more
solidarity and conciseness in the application process. Simply just kind of
following what she was going by there with the reference
ideas you should have to make your business more successful, by running a responsible tavern. – Do you think that if we have a tavern that has security video and
there’s an incident there. Do you think the Police
Department should have to get a warrant to secure that video? – [Don] I personally would
give it to them right away. But I don’t know what the
law stipulates on that. I just took over as president
just a few months ago. – And if we have this stipulation here, did you have to sign the stipulation? When you started your business? – [Don] No I did not. So it’s just something I would naturally. – How long have you had your business? – [Don] Five years. I might have to. I was on night shift
at the time, but yeah. (people laughing) I might have, once again
I worked really well with law enforcement, if there’s an issue. – I don’t know if there was a
time I stopped, I don’t know. – All right, so you think
businesses ought to follow law. – [Don] And they should
know what they should do. – And they can follow it.
– Exactly, exactly. – Do you think consequences
should then be. I mean, well not in my
opinion, do you think that tavern owners should be
held to a strict adherence to the state statutes?
– Absolutely, it’s the state statute, I also agree with what you were saying earlier,
because I wasn’t around back then when those
taverns had those issues that you brought up. But, I think that preventation is better than people asking for forgiveness and I think that we
should put the right tools in place to make sure
that that’s happening and I think it’s just kind
of a gray area right now, that should people know the law and what they should do to make
their business respectful in the community. – OK, would you think it’d be okay then, I mean even though, say we
went with Sue suggestions we have all these great suggestions. But someone walks in
and says I’m not gonna, I don’t care, I know I’m
not gonna read the law, I’m not gonna do anything I’m just gonna do basically what happens? – [Don] That’s something
that I think should be in the hands of City Council
to make that decision on whether to advise them to
have a liquor license or not. – Well we grant the
license because there’s no objection from staff or anything like that and we start having problems there. – [Don] See, once again
that’s my lack of knowledge on how the process works. I would I would suggest
possibly being able to have them, if there’s
too many incidents, having them called back in to City Council to go over their license again. – How many incidents are too many? – [Don] Good question. So many with a 30 day period,
60 day period, 90 day period. I think there may be
maybe even implementing a probationary period
to having your license so that they run their
business right, right away. These are ideas that I
would love to sit down with City Council and to be
able to go over these ideas to see what would happen to move forward with a good process that everybody will be fully knowledgeable of. – Considering that alcohol
is in essence a drug and the people dispensing it, do you think that’s a big responsibility?
– Giant. – And do you think we ought to treat it like giving out a license
to dispense ice cream? – No.
– OK. – Do you think that’s Police Department who deals with that should
be in on those discussions? – [Don] I think that being
here definitely helps a lot and knowing what they do
in the past and stuff also. – Because they or the
Council members could be gone in two years, and these
are the guys that are stuck having to enforce it day in and day out. – [Don] And they do an
excellent job of it. – Right, and we’re the
citizens who if they’re tied up at taverns they can’t they can’t respond. So do you think that
we ought to be spending a lot of time the Police Department ought to be spending a lot of time with taverns. – [Don] It’s a good question. That’s something where I’d have to go back and look at the research
and how it’s happening now and how we can get things
to happen in the future. I don’t think it would be a bad idea to not keep police officers involved just so that the license
holder would know the laws and what people do to
make their bar successful in the area and not have a
bleeding between the two. – What if we had a license
stipulation like this but everyone had to have one? Would that even the playing field? – [Don] I think it may. – I mean I’m looking at one right here. Kim Glover, she didn’t initial one, two, three of the stipulations here and kind of I understand correctly
if she doesn’t sign it she’s not held accountable to it. – The Police Department, we
go out, our officers go out. – But should we save this for discussion. Let’s just do the questions now. – So, I guess my question to you is we’re being told that
they’re being coerced or forced into doing this, but I’m seeing that she wasn’t coerced,
she didn’t initial three of these stipulations she can’t be held accountable to ’em. So I’m asking where’s the coercion here? – [Don] I don’t know and I once again I’m fresh at this, but
I would love to sit down and go over these concepts
with law enforcement, with City Council and and with Susie and to be able to reach a formal solution on the licensing process moving forward. – Do you know of anyone
that’s quit or gave up trying to get a liquor license because of this stipulation agreement? – [Don] Not personally, no. – Okay, so as far as you know it hasn’t prevented anyone from opening a tavern. – [Don] Not that I’m personally aware of. Once again, I’m very new at this, so I’m kinda learning as I go as well. But, I want to know more
about how this process works and be able to explain
things better to people as I see them.
– Okay thank you. any questions? – [Susan] Can I make one more remark. – Certainly, the floor’s still open, sure. – [Susan] As far as like bringing up Kim. Kim had been on the Board for many years for Tavern League. Understands her rights and the fact that she doesn’t have to
agree to all of those. Someone who’s never been in the business or been part of Tavern
League probably would not understand that. – Doesn’t a member of the Tavern League, I mean, don’t you guys advise them? – [Susan] Yes, that’s what I’m saying, Kim as longtime member. But somebody who’s never
been in the business before and his brand new to the business and brand new to this process would not probably understand that they don’t have to initial every one
of those stipulations. – I’m confused, I thought you guys reached out to these tavern owners. – [Susan] Well, we don’t
get the applications before you do, they
don’t come to us first. So if it’s somebody who knows about us, they’ll reach out to us
and I’ve had people do that and I’ve come down with them
and talked to the police but not everyone that’s new
knows about the Tavern League and knows about us. Nor do we always know
about the beforehand. – I just have one question. If we just change the
process a little bit, made sure that something maybe be a little more user friendly give people. – [Susan] I’m in no
way thinking the police should be out of this process. And that’s not what I’ve said here. But I do think Council
should be back more into it and I do they we’re treading a little bit on laws here with this,
when we’re leading people to believe they have to sign these things and agree to them when they’re not, it’s not really legal
to force them to do it. – Right, I mean like in the front end be more user friendly,
this is what we recommend, this is the best practice we’ve noticed and this is and depending on you. – [Susan] All of it on
there it’s good advice and they should be made aware of it, it’s just how it’s being done. – I have a question for staff. – Once we close the floor,
is there anybody else who wishes to speak on this? – Well, there’s nothing
to approve here right now. I just feel Tavern League
is they would specific write what changes they’d
like to see take place, one, two, three whatever they happen to be and then we handle them one at a time and discuss them one at a time. – Excuse me, I’d like to close the floor. – Well, I’m talking to them. And I’m just asking if they would do that. – [Susan] Yeah, definitely. – I think we should hold this, we should be specific about it. You’ve given us a couple of general ideas of what you feel aren’t
totally fair in your mind and I guess what you’d like to see. I think if you bring those forward to us then we can handle them one at a time. Would you consider that? – [Susan] Oh absolutely,
we would love to sit down with Council members or police and work on this together as a project. – Yeah, I agree. – Well, if you could write him up first and send it to a Clerk’s
office that could be put in our packet, we’d
all get it and be able to study it and share it with staff. – Maybe if you want to
go through police first with it or something, whatever,
or the law department, and then bring it before
the Committee here. I think then we’ve got something we can concretely respond to. – [Don] Very good, thank you. – Motion to close the floor?
– Motion to close the floor. – Second. – Motion by Alder Galvin
second by Alder Zima all in favor?
– Aye. – Opposed? Okay, the floor is now closed. Alder Zima I think you
have a presentation. – There’s a bartender’s course. Now, are all people ask you
for a bartender’s license are they required to do that
or just some voluntarily do it? – It’s requirement, both
for a liquor license at a retail establishment. We do have staff from Clerk’s office too that could weigh in. – [Kris] Kris Teske, City Clerk. – If you could just come
to the front though, so the recording can pick you up. – [Kris] Kris Teske, City Clerk. Not every bartender
has to take that class. If they have a bartender that is working and they have another
staff member that didn’t take the class, they can
work under that person but that person can’t
even go to the bathroom they have to be there the whole time. So, not every, you don’t have to have every bartender licensed. – You have to have a
licensed operator on premise. In order to get your operator’s license you have to have the class.
– So the bar. – You can be a bartender and
not be a licensed operator. You just have to be under the supervision of a licensed operator. – I’m aware of that, but I’m
but the bartender’s class is just strictly for
serving, it’s not really the owners. – The licensee also has to. – So every licensee takes the class. – [Kris] The person that’s managing, yes. – That responsible beverage
server training course. – And the majority of, probably what 2/3, I don’t know if you have any idea Kris, about, do the majority
of them take that course? – [Kris] We have a huge
database of people that have. But we, as the Clerk’s office, don’t know if somebody is there at
all times that’s licensed. I mean I think the Police
Department can answer that better when they go in and check. – Do you know under what set of laws that they’re required to or is it just? – Chapter 125, the state liquor statute. – OK, so it requires it. – To be a licensed operator or to have a liquor license issue to you. – Oh, just my thoughts because
of remarks that were made it felt that you know almost police is almost indirectly infringing
on the rights of the owners to handle their businesses the
way they want to handle them. I don’t know I was thinking
there’s a bartender course, well maybe there should
be a new owner course that they would take it so
they’d have a better idea of and I like the idea of you
know the Police Department giving each new applicant, I mean people that have been business 20 years obviously know how to run a business,
but people that are new, people are coming from a different area, that they have different
sets of rules than we do. – [Kris] Anita it does hand out a booklet to the new owners to discuss those. – Well, I’m just thinking there should be a little test with it maybe or something because you know.
– Or some workshop with it or something.
– Something I think our goal is to have
businesses run profitably and efficiently without causing problems for our Police Department. And alcohol’s a delicate topic because you take too much it’s trouble. But it just seems to me
if I hear them right, that they’re somewhat disturbed
that the Police Department and the City Council is
forcing them to do things that they’re not really required to by law and yet they’re not really forced to but the Police Department
doesn’t give their recommendation because they didn’t
sign it, well then it’s, to me, it’s like a form of coercion. I don’t think that’s the intent of it but that’s what it becomes in the end. I mean, you can’t really tell people how to run their businesses. People take these, take it to court, I think there could be a problem. But I do think that those are
things that they need to know but these are what causes problems. My sense, and I’ve
expressed this in the past, is that I feel any time
we’re having problems with any tavern on more
than just a once a blue moon type situation that these
Department bring them in before the Committee
and we review with them what the problems are. You’d like to have them
educated ahead of time. But I think in the past we used to do that quite regularly and I thought
it was a pretty good system. If somebody’s getting,
you know, a lot of calls, fighting or whatever
it is, even if a ticket isn’t handed out and if they’re warnings I think they should, and
they have done this now, we’ve done this a couple times and I think we have to continue that. We called people in and we
have a face-to-face talk and let these folks know
how serious the matter is. Then they don’t have approval,
they have to be aware that they can lose their
license by a special hearing. So, if you’ve got things that
you just specifically want I think we need to hear
what they are and act on them individually as
we receive the request. So I’d make a motion
that we hold this item until the Tavern League
report the specific changes they’d like to see and then
we’ll handle them one at a time. – I’ll second. – I guess I can understand how perhaps through this process
maybe some new bar owners feel coerced, but I think on the whole this is what we want as a
Committee and a Council. We want business owners
to be aware of what we’re looking for what best practices are and if we don’t think we’re gonna get that I have no problem not giving
them a license straight off. You know, why wait for trouble so I think the process may need a little tweaking. Maybe need a little, you
know, make people aware that they don’t have to
do everything on the list but they better have some
reasons for not, you know. And then we can certainly, I
mean Alder Galvin pointed out there were points not. And this is, but that’s not, a unique one. That happens quite often
where certain points aren’t checked off and
we still have approved, this is just a recommendation
and we have the discussion and then we approve,
generally, I don’t know if I’ve never not given a license unless there was a felony or
something on that those lines where we couldn’t. – I believe just a month or so ago we had a case where the
gentleman didn’t want to sign a couple things and the Department was not recommending, (audio dropping) was not recommending that
we give them a license. But in retrospect I think that was wrong. – well, but they still
ended up with a license and I think that’s the process. – It did not end up with a license. It was referred back and
then they had a meeting with the Police Department
and Sue Robinson was there and she asked me to come along. We had a very good talk and then I learned that the Police Department
had it thrown on their lap. That supposedly the Council asked them that they should recommend
or not recommend. Because it really should,
the body that’s supposed to do the recommending
of having the license is Protection & Welfare, ’cause we’re here to hear the facts. The Police Department
needs to bring forward their concerns that they
have and then we hear from the applicants
and you know they have, I feel they have to have the
right to run their business. I appreciate that we want
to do some proactive things to try to help people avoid pitfalls that inexperienced people fall into. It’s usually, that’s the case. It’s always the inexperienced ones, sometimes younger ones
that do this so anything that can be like a little
course or something that they have to take, a
little test along with it. Those are all positive things and that they go over it with
the Police Department what are good practices. These are the things
that have kept businesses out of trouble and then they come up here. But I mean whether you sign
on this or don’t sign on this the law says you don’t have to. If they don’t have a criminal
background or something who are we to say they they aren’t, don’t have a right to run their business or have a license, it has to
be on the merit of the person who filed the case, so. I’m for all the proactive stuff, but it can’t be a
condition of the license, it has to be voluntary. Of course, you know people who don’t want to know these things are
probably going to be problematic, there’s a good chance of a problem. But if there are
problematic, let’s get ’em before the Committee, rapidly,
quarterly or semi-annually the four or five that
seem to be generating more police calls. I mean anytime you generate
a lot of police calls, I think we should have
them in and talk to them. And that’s when we need to send and say OK you’re gonna do some things
to improve the situation and that’s the condition
otherwise we may not recommend you getting
your license next year. – I see that as being the same process as only you’ve given them the license and now you’re doing the same thing,
you put the conditions on it. I don’t know why we can’t
do that from the get-go, perhaps we need to soften the language as not a recommendation but or that police have certain concerns
and list the concerns and then we can discuss
it and then the Council can say yes or no. I think we have the
right to deny a license if we feel uncomfortable
with it from the get-go. So I think maybe if we just
tweak the process a little. If we sit down, you come
forward with your concerns – You want a comment from me real quick? – Certainly. – I didn’t create this process. Probably written by
somebody that wasn’t a cop because there is some
legal language in here. But what you talked
about Susan was basically a lot of the questions
on here, but just worded a little bit differently. – [Susan] Right, right. – It’s all responsibility,
it’s not demanding somebody, I understand that. The way this process
works is we’re notified by the City Clerk, I assign one of my community police
officers for the most part, to go out with meet with
the new business owners. They sit down, they go over this plan and we get it done pretty
quick so it can come before this Committee. It’s not really that
much of a bother for us to do this because we look at it like if we’re doing something proactive going out and meeting with these people and everything else ahead of time that maybe we’re going
to avoid some problems at the end of it. And I look at this process as part of the bigger process which
we’ve done here in Green Bay to really reduce the amount
of alcohol-related incidents. Whether it’s drunk driving
or crimes involving alcohol. I think we’ve done a really
really tremendous job with cooperation from the Tavern League, the Police Department,
the community, everything. I mean, if you look at
it now, our no serve list 20 years ago or whenever it was created, it was six pages, now it’s
about a half of a page. And that’s a credit to everybody. Our drunk driving
fatalities have really gone, I mean, one’s too many, but
they’ve really gone down ever since that tragedy
on a Packer Land Drive two years ago. – I’m part of the Brown County
Traffic Safety Commission so I’ve seen all those and
gone through it one by one. – And you know when they
bring the big bus out and they Park it right
on Broadway and Walnut and they have their mobile OWI center, I mean, I really think all these things, you have enforcement, you
have community awareness, all these things and this is part of it. I’ve sat at this Committee
for like a year or two and I’ve seen people come
up here and make their case and we may be able to
recommend or whatever but we’re, the Police
Department isn’t the final say. I think we could work on this and make this language happy for everybody, but say the same things that are here. – [Susan] I agree. – And we can do that. But we don’t want to run into a situation, like Alderman Galvin
said where we are giving out these licenses willy-nilly
and the Police Department are spending all their time
at these establishments because there’s problems
over and over and over again. A bad tavern is like a bad tenant. They’re very very difficult to get out. That’s one thing we don’t wanna do. We wanna be, I know it’s hard to believe to look at police like this nowadays, but we want to be proactive
and avoid having to go in and arrest people and issue citations. We’d rather do the work on the front end. I think that’s what this is about. I think it’s part of a bigger picture and we’re willing to work with anybody but at the same time
here, we want to make sure that yeah they’re aware of these things. And one last thing about video. I don’t think we ever want to come into an establishment and
say hey, you had a bunch of underage people in here
last night, we got a complaint we want to see your video. I don’t think we’ve ever done that. But what does happen is, there’s crimes that happen outside of
bars, terrible what happened on Broadway, we need the video right away because if we don’t we’re
gonna run into problems trying to solve these things. For the most part we use
video to solve crimes that occurred, some who may
have occurred inside the bar, some of them on the outside. And then one last thing. On the last thing of the agenda here, it says liquor law violations reports from the Police Department for February 26. I don’t think we have any. And the last couple of
meetings that we’ve had here, it’s been one, maybe
two, but it hasn’t been a plethora of them at all. That’s a credit to everybody. I think this is working and if we need to change shall or will
on these things and words, well let’s sit down and get it done. – Would it be best to for them to send their recommendations to. – I think, send it to me or
send it to the law department or something. – Send both and CC the law department. – I mean, in the end the Police Department only recommends anyway.
– Exactly. – I think that’s part of the process that we need to make
clear because I think some new people are thinking it’s
not if just a recommendation. – You hit the nailhead. – And I think there’s
some things that I would like to see that, the scanners, those aren’t very expensive
now aren’t they fairly? – Well, depends on what
you’d say is expensive. I mean $1800. – I guess if you if I can
get a word in edgewise. – Certainly. – I was the one who started this process. It was because I did a study that showed 80% of our officers spent were downtown. It’s entire city, 16 officers or more, were downtown Friday
night starting at 10:00 until 4:00 in the morning
Friday and Saturday night into Sunday morning. They weren’t out in the neighborhoods, they weren’t fighting crime,
they weren’t doing anything. They were having to chase these bars that were given these
licenses and some of those very same members that
constitute our Council right now were the ones that granted it and when the Police Department went
to those very same people and asked for some help they were ignored and that’s why the
Police Department came up with a demerit points system,
which never worked anyway. But they tried several different ways to get the Council to
help them to shut down these taverns that were causing problems and they weren’t getting that help. So, if the Police Department
threw in the towel. Until we went to some of these meetings and we saw other communities were reducing calls for service. Everybody wants the tavern. It’s like the perfect tenant is what? The one that never complains. They pay their rent, they
do what they’re gonna do and you never hear from ’em and they don’t bother the neighbors. Perfect tavern a place where
someone can go and relax, have a good time, but
it’s those problem taverns that tear down on everybody else. And you gotta admit that back in the day, Washington Street, Broadway
Street, there’s been a few others throughout our community have dragged down the
image of our taverns. And yet, you seem to find
some tavern operators can run a tavern multiple
different places, different themes and everything,
they never have a problem. And so these are the things
that we wanted to do. Now, you can make all the
suggestions in the world and if somebody doesn’t want
to do it, it doesn’t happen. And then if you run into a Council that doesn’t want to
support that, then you just continue to chase your tail. So we started this and it’s been refined. Bill Bongle was even
bigger into this stuff, understood even better,
he refined it even more to what it is today. Now, I think you’d have to admit Sue and while you’ve only been for five years, so you don’t know what it was like before. There are calls for
service, I have to admit, our calls for service on the night shift are greatly reduced, I think
in large part due to this. Could we do it better? Absolutely. But I don’t want to have
something misrepresented here because what I’ve seen in
Council and in Committee meetings someone throws something
up and they just leave it hanging and everyone
seems to think it’s true. I don’t think anyone’s civil rights are being violated here
and I would ask staff as part of this motion,
to investigate that, to see we are violating
anyone’s civil rights with this document here. Also if they see any
coercion in this document. And I would ask if
anyone has any complaints about that I’d like to know about it. Alders Zima brought up the last gentleman that was here and he was
denied, why was he denied? It wasn’t because he didn’t
want to cooperate with this. In large part of us
because of his past history operating a tavern. In fact we showed at the Committee meeting he was being untruthful with the Committee at that meeting and that’s
why I wasn’t willing to give him the license. It wasn’t because he wasn’t, you know, just because he didn’t want
to cooperate with this. But because he had some
very serious violation, granted several years ago, but even now, he couldn’t be honest about
it and he couldn’t admit the truth even when we
had documentation here that he was being untruthful with us. I look at that as, if
you’re gonna lie about this, what are you gonna do going
forward if we grant this? So, you know I again like I said, I have no problem looking at this if we can make this a
little bit seem friendlier or whatever but again
you’re dispensing a drug. That drug can have a very serious impact on individuals and on
this community as a whole and I think we’ve all seen what
it’s done to our community, and I think we have to be responsible when we grant this license. It’s not a right, OK, it’s not a right. It’s something that when you have it, you have to be responsible with it and there have to be
consequences if you’re not. And I just think that this thing, you know granted the scanners were a heck of a lot more expensive when we started but they’re hugely useful
in that they protect the tavern owner if
there’s ever a complaint. The video, the one guy
talked to from Wausau, his insurance went down
because he had video. His insurance company said
yes, you’ve got this video it’s night vision, it’s everything. It protects you from complaints
about sexual incidents that may happen in the bathrooms,
fights, everything else. There’s good reasons to have these here. But I think to take it
and throw it all away, I think that would be a mistake. If the Tavern League and
the Police Department and the law of staff are
willing to meet together and pound out a document that
doesn’t violate civil rights, which I don’t think it
does, it’s not, you know, they’re not being coerced into it. But I think there has to
be some something there. That people do have to sign this document. That they do have to initial
these different bullet points if they’re going to follow and if not, well then you’re on your own. That’s just my peace, thank you. – So we have a motion and a second. Anything else? Alder Zima? – I still have some questions. First of all, I want to
disagree with, at least half of what Mr. Galvin said
and I don’t think we should retry the person who was
asking for a liquor license a couple of weeks ago
that was denied initially, I don’t know if it was
denied, it was sent back. It was held, it wasn’t
given and then it eventually was given after he did give it. And I don’t think the gentleman’s treated very fairly at all initially. There was problems from
something 20 years ago, in the city of Green Bay a single night that three different violations were given and the gentlemen moved on. He was given a license
after that incident, had been renewed, so
the Council did not take the license away they did
renew it a second time and then the gentleman moved
to Howard where he operated an operation for 13 years
without a single violation and then there were
insinuations that he really took umbrage with that were coming from our Police Department. That oh, they had a lot
of problems in Howard, but when you go to check it,
they can’t get any confirmation of even a traffic call. – Is there a point to this at all? – Let him finish, let him finish. Please go on, just please go on. I’ve called it to order. – I guess it depends on who’s talking. – No I called him to order, go on. – Anyway, I don’t think you
characterized it 100% correctly I don’t agree with all that you’ve said. Now, I’m coming to my next
question of the staff here. Are the things that are in the, there’s one, they want
people to get an ID reader. – Scanner.
– Scanner. I personally wouldn’t open a
business without one myself. I’d be too scared, but, does the law say they have to have them? – State statutes don’t. What state statutes do,
they have their list of requirements that you
need to have in order to have a liquor license issued and then they also
delegate to municipalities and local authorities
to have the authority to develop their own
restrictions requirements. And so long as those
restrictions and requirements do not conflict or not
contrary to state statutes they are legal. – All right, let’s take
this, just the scanner. There were a number of things that I think the Tavern League is concerned about. We’ll just take that one. Do we have the right
to make a law that says that everybody who has a tavern license has to have a scanner? – So long as it’s not
contrary to state statute, yes we would be able to,
and my understanding is that I do not believe there’s
anything in the state statutes that speaks to that more. – So we could make that a
requirement you’re saying? – By ordinance, correct, yes. – OK, well I think if the Police Department or staff or whatever they want to suggest
those things, they need to be brought forward. Until they’re part of
our rules, you can’t, I don’t believe you can
require people to have them. I just wanted to be clear
and if we have rights to make these laws locally
and we put them on the books then I have no problem
with the Police Department saying you’ve got to
check off these things before you can open up your business and I think that’s the
way it has to be done. Now, if that isn’t the case,
we have to talk about it. So, it either is or it
isn’t and I know things aren’t always black and white. You have the letter of the
law, you have the spirit of the law, we’re just
struggling with it all the time. But, the Tavern League said that they feel some of our requirements
on the business plan are egregious. I’ve heard people say
how can they require you to even have a business plan? Every business has a right
to run their business the way they want to as long
as they don’t break the law, as long as they don’t have fights, as long as they don’t open after hours, as long as they don’t over serve people, as long as they obey the laws. I think it can’t be
halfway, it has to be either we’re going to require things because we think it’s important for our community and we put it on the books,
or we can’t require people. We can inform people,
give them information and maybe even have them
take a test, get a license so that they at least know the
basics of running a business. And maybe most of them
maybe do but so maybe don’t. These are all things
that you do proactively I think those are the things
that have to be addressed, the things that they’re objecting to. Are they legal requirements
or aren’t they. If they’re not, if we can make them legal then we have to have a discussion whether we want to make
them legal requirements and then put it on the books. But we just can’t treat
people differently I think so. That’s all I have to say. I guess we have a motion already? – Yep, already spotted the half of that so I’m not gonna bother recapping. So I think we can take a motion to, we have a motion to have
Tavern League work with staff come up with a new. – Refer back until they
being forward their concerns. (speaker drown out background noise) – I think whenever they’re
ready to bring it forward they can bring it forward. I don’t know if we need
to put a date on it because then we just
mean it need to extend it or if they’re done before we take it. So when they’re done (speaker
drown out background noise). All the favor?
– Aye. – Opposed? OK, that carries. – Item number eight.
– Second. – Staff has nothing, that’s correct. Motion to receive and place on file motion by Alder Zima
second by Alder Galvin. All In favor?
– Aye. – Opposed. – Motion to adjourn. – Motion to adjourn by Alder Zima. – Second.
– Second by Alder Galvin. All if favor?
– Aye. – We are adjourned. (people speaking indistinctly off-mic)

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