The Impact of Indian Civilization – Sanjeev Sanyal with Sadhguru

The Impact of Indian Civilization – Sanjeev Sanyal with Sadhguru

Sadhguru: Good evening. Good evening, everyone. Sanjeev Sanyal: Good evening. Let me begin by welcoming you to Singapore
on behalf of all the people here (Sadhguru laughs). It is a real pleasure, it’s a real honor to speak to you.
Of course, many of us have already seen many of your videos online and today of course
another one just before this. Now, as you know the topic for today is,
“The Impact of Indian Civilization on the World.” Sadhguru: It’s your topic but you’re putting
me in the topic. Sanjeev Sanyal: Yeah, I’m going to put you
on the spot for it (Both laugh). And before we go beyond that, I’m going
to put you on the… try and get you to try and define what we mean by Indian civilization,
in the sense that particularly what I… what we’re not trying to get into is of course
this impact of Indian civilization on mathematics in ancient times, of software today but really the impact
of Indian philosophy, our way of life on the world. And I’m going to start with asking you,
how is the backbone of this civilization, whether you call it Hinduism or the dharmic
tradition, how is that fundamentally different from other ways of thinking about civilization
(Sadhguru laughs)? Sadhguru: You used the word backbone – that
is the essence of Indian civilization. It doesn’t have a backbone because what
a backbone means is, the form is determined. Your body takes on this form because the skeletal
system is a fixed thing. You can change a little bit, you can make
it big or small but the skeletal system is a fixed thing. Nobody has changed the shape of their bones out here.
They only can put on some flesh or reduce some flesh. So backbone essentially means that you’ve
become a vertebrate. Vertebrate means you can only change your
form marginally, not completely ever. But the ethos of Indian civilization is it’s like an amoeba.
It can change, it can integrate, it can drop with impunity. So, the essence of Indian culture is it doesn’t have…
it is not a vertebrate, it’s an invertebrate (Laughs). Sanjeev Sanyal: Okay, if we are an invertebrate,
but there must be something that gives it a certain cohesiveness surely, otherwise to
say that it is an amoeba… You know, there is a danger here that we fall back
on saying, you know, “Hinduism is a way of life” (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: No. Sanjeev Sanyal: Ultimately, it means nothing.
So I’m going to have to press you on and try and get you to give me some things,
which I would say is a more… Sadhguru: This question is coming because
both you and me and almost everybody here, whatever type of education they have received,
fundamentally is Western. Largely, that’s the only education system left,
except for few small pockets. So when I say Western, I’m not talking about
a particular nation or particular continent. We’re looking at that aspect of life or that part
of humanity, which wants their life in straight lines. When we say Eastern, we’re talking about
that aspect of humanity, which does not want to be put in between two lines. So because the very way of thinking has
become purely logical, irrespective of whether it makes life sense or not. Being logically correct has become more important
than having sense about life, how to conduct life. Everything is logically correct but nothing works. People are just breaking their minds trying
to live their life but it’s correct. And today (Laughs), you know, the food industry on the
planet is 7.6 trillion. The pharmaceuticals are 7.2 trillion. They tell me by 2017, pharmaceuticals is going
to become larger than food industry on the planet. This clearly shows that our sense of trying
to handle life in straight lines has not worked. Though we have great inventions, though we
have all kinds of preventives for every kind of you know, epidemics and pandemics we used to have
in the past, still more people are sick than ever before. So this is what I mean by saying we are correct
on everything but it doesn’t have any life sense. What we called as India is a profound sense of life
but we are never correct about anything (Laughter). Sanjeev Sanyal: I think basically (Laughs) what you’re
describing is really a evolving ecosystem. It’s a messy system… Sadhguru: It’s like… It’s not messy, that is what a
Western mind would think. Sanjeev Sanyal: Okay (Laughter/Applause). Sadhguru: It’s like the differences between
that of a manicured garden and a forest. A manicured garden looks nice but nothing
except human beings walk on it. Sanjeev Sanyal: So ultimately at some level, it’s dead? Sadhguru: It is alive but latent. If you don’t tend to
it for three months, it’s all gone. A forest is not like that, no tending is needed. If you come back after a million years, it still thrives. But one, who thinks in a linear fashion, a forest seems
to be messy, forest seems to be chaotic. It’s not chaotic, there is a very profound order. But that order is not in straight lines because
it’s an invertebrate order, now that you’ve brought the spine into
this picture (Laughter). Sanjeev Sanyal: So I think that’s a fabulous way of
thinking about it because basically what you’re describing is a continuously
churning but there is an order in that churn, in the sense – it’s an act of seeking of innovating,
it’s a civilization really… it’s a risk-taking civilization, would you
say, a civilization that thinks of adventure? Sadhguru: Now you’re being an economist (Laughter). If you use the word adventure, usually it means
that you’re taking risk with your life. You’re doing something risky, which is a danger to your life
but you manage to come out of it – it’s an adventure. If you don’t manage to come out of it, it was a
stupid action, all right? That’s how it is. If you successfully come out of a dangerous
situation, it’s called an adventure. If you don’t come out, you’re just stupid
(Few laugh), isn’t it? So if you do a stupid act successfully,
you’re adventurous. Sanjeev Sanyal: Or you’re a risk-taker (Laughter).
Or you’re a risk taker? Sadhguru: Oh, you’re talking in economic terms? Sanjeev Sanyal: It could be an intellectual
risk or it could… Sadhguru: Intellectual, see… Sanjeev Sanyal: I mean, after all, science
is also intellectual risk. Sadhguru: No, intellectually there is no risk,
that is the beauty of the intellect. You can do whatever you want, there’s no
danger (Few laugh). In your mind, you can do whatever you want,
there is no danger. That is what… That is where the Indian ethos comes from. Human intellect was expanded in such a way,
they looked at everything in every possible way because there was no danger. They did not believe in putting their
physical body into danger because this is not something that you can create.
If you destroy this, it’s over. But in our minds, every concept we have,
every philosophy we have, every idea we have, every ideology we have, we can crush (Gestures)
it right now this moment. Next moment, you can come up with a
whole new world. So, our sense of adventure was purely intellectual
but the Western sense of adventure was all physical. Physical adventure can be… Cameras can capture it,
you can make a movie out of it. Intellectual adventures cannot be captured like that. Even if it is expressed in some form, in the
form of literature, or philosophy or whatever, very few people will get it, all others will ignore it. Everybody can… You know, large part of the world… I…
I was surprised to know that whatever this one… You know, one mad wrestling matches are going
on the television, something… Sanjeev Sanyal: WWE Sadhguru: Yes, whatever, some crazy stuff,
it’s not even real and it’s most un-aesthetic. But I heard this is the most popular channel
in India right now. Sanjeev Sanyal: It is, yes.
Even my sons watch it (Laughter). Sadhguru: This is the most un-aesthetic thing. But it’s popular because physical things
are something that everybody can identify with or instead of saying everybody, even
the grossest mind will understand physical things. But intellectual adventures it will take a some level
of appreciation, some level of refinement within you to understand
the intellectual adventure. When I say intellectual adventure, let’s look at it
like this – it’s not now, even 5000 years ago, if you go back to the times of Mahabharata, what
they’re speaking, even today in modern times most people cannot come to
terms with it. It’s that revolutionary. But these adventures were done. People
ignored everything. If you say for example, 5000 years ago, Harappa, Mohenjo-Daro – what did
you read in your book… textbook? They had very organized drainage system. But to build a city like that, how people
should have been, what should their thought be, how should they be thinking, what were
they doing, what was their trade? No, nothing about that, nobody read anything
about that. Everybody reads, “Very good drainage system Harappa,
Mohenjo-Daro had.” All of you must have read this, isn’t it (Laughter)? Participants: Yes. Sadhguru: And is it… Is an entire civilization about
drainage system, I’m asking (Few laugh)? Sanjeev Sanyal: No, I think that you bring
up a very interesting point about civilization is more than, of course, the drainage system
but it’s about a certain spirit. Sadhguru: I’m sure in the minds of the people,
who lived in those cities, drainage was the last thing on their mind (Laughter). Sanjeev Sanyal: No, I agree with you and in
fact, one of the interesting things about Indian civilization is that this intellectual adventurism or culture that you just described was enormously attractive because it spread across
the world, taken by Indian merchants. Of course, we now live… This part of the world,
we’re in a city called Singhapura, the lion’s city… Sadhguru: The very name is (Laughs)… Sanjeev Sanyal: …and in fact, you know, the largest
Hindu temple in the world is not in India but in Cambodia – Angkor Wat. And all the way
across through to Korea, where in fact many people may not realize but Koreans say that
their civilization starts with a Korean prince marrying a princess from Ayodhya. So,
this is certainly a very attractive… Sadhguru: Don’t tell me North Korea came
from North India and South Korea came from South India (Laughter/Applause). Sanjeev Sanyal: Well, evidently… evidently, they think
their civilization started from Central UP, so (Laughter)… Sadhguru: No, no, no, no, no. Sanjeev Sanyal: Nevertheless, the point I’m trying
to come to is that this way of thinking that we had at a certain point at our… in our history, we seem
to have in some ways lost it along the way. But do you think in many ways this sense of
intellectual and cultural adventure is coming back? Sadhguru: You cannot say it’s coming back. It can be
brought back. Is it coming back? I don’t think so, not in a large-scale – very
small pockets here and there. Should it come back? If you are interested in true well-being of
humanity on the planet, it must come back because from simplest things, everything that we
have done in the world today, the style of… or the mode in which we are doing today…
For example, one biggest thing that everybody’s talking about today is about your subject, economics. The economic engine of the planet is driven
all by more and more and more. But physical world is a world of limited quantities.
More, more, more is only destructive. More, more was possible… was thought of
by a certain group of people in the world when they believed they will enslave the entire
world for their well-being. When that was the basis, more, more, more
was possible. You could always make other people have less,
less, less and you have more, more, more. There is no question of entire population
on the planet having more, more, more. It’s totally out of question because there is no more. So,
these flaws, if they have to be fixed genuinely, Before… You know (Laughs), India is getting rapidly
Westernized, okay? Many parts of India, urban India, is more
West than West, all right (Laughs). It’s more American than American, many people in
the country. So before it becomes an all-encompassing thing, we must bring it up – not for the sake of
preserving a nation’s culture. I’m personally not identified with any nation, or any piece of
geography or history for that matter. But this is the only culture which has nurtured seeking. It is… If you look at fundamentally why India was
recognized as one country, though at times politically it was nearly five hundred entities,
at the same… in spite of that, people from outside recognized this as Bharat or Hindustan
or as one nation and people within the country also felt they’re one nation though they
were ruled by various kings is just this – always this land has been a land of seekers,
never a land of believers. Fundamentally, the difference between seeking
and believing means, seeking means you have realized that you do not know.
“I do not know” is the basis of seeking. Believing means, what you do not know, you have
chosen to assume and concretize your assumptions and put god’s seal on it, finished. Once you put
divine seal on your stupidity (Few laughs), you can never come out of it, okay? Yes. Once you get heavenly approval for all the stupid things
that you do, there is no way out for you, you’re stuck. Here, this is a culture, where even if god appeared
or somebody appeared whom you believed is god, still they cannot give you commandments
– this is the thing to do. Well, for example, the most famous book probably
is the Gita in India. Well, he’s supposed to be god himself – whatever
he says, the other guy is arguing and arguing endlessly, asking a 1000 questions because even he cannot
give commandments to him. It has to make logical sense to him, otherwise
he’s not going to take it. This is not today’s culture, 5000 years
ago this is the way we have been, this is the way we are right now. But today,
because we have been… You know, two-hundred-and-fifty years ago or
three hundred years ago, we were the strongest economy on the planet. Everybody wanted to come to
India because it was the richest nation. Well last ten, fifteen generations, we’ve fallen
on bad times because of that, nobody listens to what you’re talking. Slowly, it will
change because in the world, if your voice has to be heard, first thing
you must be successful. There is no substitute for success unfortunately. It doesn’t matter what brilliant things
you’re talking about, unless you are speaking from the platform of success, nobody is
willing to listen to you. Sanjeev Sanyal: But the idea of seeking is quite
an interesting one, taking that in some sense it’s a very post-modern, in fact post-industrial idea
(Sadhguru laughs) about how to think about the world, which is essentially that we poke every assumption of
our lives or ideologies and we try and dissect it. There is one danger in this, in that it can lead to you
becoming negative or even to begin to think that sort of mysticism is some sort of a monasticism (Unclear).
That is surely not what you are trying to say here. It’s not a self-denying way of life
that you are describing? Sadhguru: Tell me, if you don’t take out your twelve-
cylinder car today and you chose to go on a bicycle, is it self-denial or is it eco-sensitive? It depends
who is looking at you, right? Somebody chose to sit in a place under a tree
and he was happy sitting under a tree. Why do you call it self-denial? He might have found
something that you’ve not imagined possible. He has found something, which you cannot
even imagine. That’s why sitting under a tree, he’s fine. Sanjeev Sanyal: So many of these ideas that
you are telling us, I believe some of it came to you while you were… since you mentioned
bicycles but maybe on a mo-bike, crisscrossing India. So it would be wonderful if you could give us some
sense of what is it that you… that really you found as you crisscrossed this country (Sadhguru laughs)
that inspired you to begin thinking like this. Sadhguru: Initially, I did most of South India
on my bicycle. Sanjeev Sanyal: Oh, on a bicycle? Sadhguru: Initially (Both laugh). I did Southern
India on my bicycle. I was planning an expedition on my bicycle to Moscow. Sanjeev Sanyal: Okay. Sadhguru: Okay (Both laugh)? But then my father,
little lost his mind (Laughs) thinking how I will go to (Laughs) Moscow on my
bicycle. Two of my friends went, they came back after nearly four years
being on the bicycle. Sanjeev Sanyal: Wow, they actually made it? Sadhguru: They made it (Laughs). They went to Moscow, they went all over Russia,
they went through all this… now all those you know, the twenty-and-odd Central Asian countries
(Laughs) and they came back after four years. Well I got, kind of (Laughs) sabotaged (Laughs).
Anyway, my travels… I was… I was just flipping through your geography, history book,
you know. This geography and history is a little… I had a joke for you, it’s okay? Sanjeev Sanyal: Yeah, yeah, sure (Few laugh). Sadhguru: A novice bank robber wanted to try
it on a gas station first. So he walked into the gas station, pulled
out his gun and he said… He put his gun to the salesperson and said,
“All the cash, otherwise you’re geography” (Few laugh). He said, “Come on, you mean history,
isn’t it” (Laughter)? “No,” he said, “No, don’t change the
subject” (Laughter/ Applause). When I was reading your book, I thought of
this, okay (Laughter). It’s a geography book but it’s history (Laughter). You’re not changing the subject, it’s the
same subject (Both laugh). Geography and history is the same subject,
that’s the point of your book in many ways (Laughs). So, for me, all these travels – I travelled without any
purpose. I was not going to any particular place. I simply rode across India. For me, because
I never thought, nor do I even today think in words. I only see pictures and videos in my mind always. Even today, what I did those many years ago, I remember
every feature of land. It’s very difficult to explain this. I’m not talking about some great mountain or river or
a waterfall, not like that, those definitely I remember. I’m talking about every corner, ones…little outcrop,
one little bird was sitting on the tree, one small this, one anthill here, one there – it’s just in my mind. This is the biggest pleasure for me, when
I want, I play back (Laughs). Just simple terrain, the land just took my heart away,
just looking at the land. Then came people for me because in my mind,
in my experience, everything I look at it, is all first of all is geometry for me. If I look at a human being, I… first thing is I look at the various aspects of geometry.
And if I look at them right now, I will tell you in ten years what problem they will
have because if their geometry is okay or not okay, it’s so visible. The very way they sit and stand, you can
see what are they going to get or not get because geometrically whether it’s right or wrong. The entire physical existence is a consequence
of geometry. Only what is geometrically right will last. What is not geometrically right will not last. How long something lasts simply depends upon
whether it’s geometrically correct or not. I think they were showing those buildings.
It is all about geometry for me. And the very word yoga means this, that you
align your physical geometry with the cosmic geometry suddenly what is there is here also for you
because you’re properly aligned. So when I looked at the terrain, which at
that time only India, now I travelled all over, but at that time when I travelled, it was
all about geometry – how a little rock… I’m not talking about huge, massive, monumental rock. I’m talking about a little stone was sitting. As I was
riding, from the corner of my eye, I saw that stone. That stone still lives in my mind. So this is how
I just absorbed India into me. Then it came to people. I just ride into some village,
walk into some home, any home, I just walk in and I say, “I’m hungry.”
They would look at me, “Who is this guy?” But they said okay and they would arrange
a meal for me. I would eat there and if I wanted to sleep there,
right there… Either if they allowed me in the house or just outside the house, I slept there and early morning,
I was off again. So for me, I didn’t… I never introduced myself, nor many times I never
asked their names, nor did I exchange email ID because there wasn’t one at that time (Few laugh). There was no need to again reach back and contact
them nor did they have any need to know who I am. It was just like that. This is India (Laughs).
Just come together as if you belong to them. Tomorrow morning, you’re gone, like you
never existed. This is how I travelled. Very, very rare, you know, in these entire travels,
I remember maybe five or six times I stayed in a hotel room. Otherwise, I slept in anybody’s
home or sometimes just outside in the town. In the center of the town, I would sleep.
People would come and ask, “Who? What?” “This (Gestures), I’m traveling like this.”
Somebody would take me and give me food. Because I am saving every rupee for more gas
– more gas means more miles (Laughs). So my impression of India and people and the
culture was, there are no lines. If you don’t carry lines, there are no lines.
A lot had changed since then, of course. So many things have happened, people are suspicious
about each other, there has been terror attacks, there are bombs, everybody wants to frisk
you from top to bottom now (Laughs). So many things, that’s because of the events that have
taken place. Otherwise, this is India. Even today, I’m sure it’s true in rural India, it’s still
like that. You can walk in anywhere and it’s okay. If they are… What they have, they’ll share it with you.
It’s not some great meal they are serving you. If you approach in a certain way, everything is wide
open because there are no lines in people’s minds. Lines are now being drawn because people are
going to schools now, everybody’s getting educated. Educated means you become less and less inclusive.
See this is the kind of education we’re getting. The more educated you become, the less inclusive
you become. There was a time… I’ve gone and stayed with families, where
family of over four hundred people… In Karnataka, in the coastal Karnataka, there
are families, where four hundred people in one family. And one more guest, they don’t even care,
okay (Laughter). You also stay and go, what’s the big deal?
But today, gradually it came down. Family meant you, your wife, your children,
your parents – not her parents ever (Laughter). And slowly your parents went out,
now just wife and kids. If you move West, you will see kids also out as soon
as possible, and slowly husband and wife are live… In many homes, I’m telling you, I’m not
joking there are people, husband and wife, married for many years, now separated but
not legally separated, living in adjacent homes. Only when they want, otherwise separate homes
because they can’t stand each other. This is the form of education we’re imparting on
the entire world, where inclusiveness is not possible. Slowly you can’t stand anybody over a period
of time because the way of thinking is becoming so logically correct. The more logically correct
you are, you look at anybody, nobody seems to be okay (Few laugh). Really, you’re
logically hundred percent correct you think, you look at them, nobody is okay. If nobody is okay, it is not a question of
correctness, it is a question of madness. The first sign of psychological disturbance is you
start thinking nobody is okay except you (Laughter). We’re heading towards that big time. The statistics
tell me that thirty-eight percent of the European population is psychologically ill.
Every year, three-hundred-and-fifty million Europeans go through serious
psychiatric treatment. This is… Sanjeev Sanyal: So what you’re describing is you know,
continuous individualization into silos… Sadhguru: Yes. Sanjeev Sanyal: …and this is not just about
individuals in silos but this is also a thought process, a wider thought process, which is true maybe… Sadhguru: No, this is essentially happening because
your idea of intelligence has become purely intellectual. Intellect is like a knife, it’s like a scalpel. Whatever you
give it, it will slice it into two and look at it. Then it’s not happy, it will slice it into four and look at it. Then it is not happy, it will slice it into eight and
look at it. This is the way of the intellect. Intellect knows everything only by dissection,
cutting everything into pieces. This is the way we have developed science,
this is the way our logical thinking process is because we have come to this place that
intelligence means intellect. The Indian way of life, we have looked at
human mind as sixteen parts. To make it simple, I will make it into four here.
This is called as buddhi, manas, ahankara and chitta. These are different dimensions. Intellect means only
buddhi is being used, which is a sharp knife. This sharp knife is a good instrument for you to survive
in the world. It dissects everything and shows you. But right now, you want to…you want to know
somebody, who is dear to you, you can’t dissect them and know them (Laughs). You won’t have them, that’s all, if you dissect them. This is what is happening, we are not understanding
the distinction between intellect and the deeper dimensions of intelligence,
which functions within us. The intelligence within us is inclusive in nature. As you sit here, you may hate the person who
is sitting next to you. If you… Okay, I didn’t mean you should, it’s not
a instruction (Few laugh). You may hate the person who is sitting next
to you but unknowingly you are inhaling what they are exhaling right now (Few laugh) and
you have no problem. Yes? You’ve no problem. Body has no problem because the deeper intelligence
within you has no issue. But if you just intellectually think, “Oh my god,
I’m inhaling this person’s breath sitting next to this person,” you can’t sit there
anymore (Laughs). Yes? You cannot sit there anymore. This is the nature of the intellect.
It keeps on dividing, dividing, dividing. The other dimensions of intelligence have…
are not made like this. Right now, we’re able to live only because
this (Referring to oneself) is inclusive. What you exhale, the tree is inhaling; what the tree
exhales, you’re inhaling. This is how life is happening. Not just this, right now, what is happening in every
subatomic particle in this body is reverberating across the cosmos in so many different ways.
I’m not talking philosophy, I’m talking about physics. Sanjeev Sanyal: Now this… this… inclusive
way of thinking, I think in… Sadhguru: No, no. You cannot think inclusively.
If you don’t think, you’re inclusive (Laughter/Applause). Sanjeev Sanyal: Okay. That’s a fabulous way of thinking
(Laughter). I mean basically (Laughs), of feeling it… I don’t know, what would be the correct
word for it? Sadhguru: See, because… Sanjeev Sanyal: Experience it, perhaps is…
perhaps the… Sadhguru: People ask me, “Sadhguru, what are you
usually…?” Today morning, I am doing an interview with some FM radio in India because it’s the
Tamil New Year’s day is coming. “Sadhguru, what is your thought process all… most
of the time when you’re not teaching or speaking?” I said, “I don’t have any (Few laugh). I don’t think. What is
there to think? I don’t know. I don’t think, that’s all. I just walk around joyfully with an empty head.”
That’s why I don’t have the burden of knowledge. There is… I’ve never felt burdened by it because I
don’t carry it, first of all. I don’t have a single thought in my mind,
most of the time (Laughs). Sanjeev Sanyal: Nevertheless, there is a certain
art to it that must surely be… Okay, we can’t put it down into certain steps maybe,
in a silo-ed way. But if you had to sort of describe the way one sort of… if one had to dissect say a
global problem or something, how would say this particular approach deal with it, as opposed
to the way we now deal with it, which is to break it down to its sub-parts, solve
each little bit and put it back together? Sadhguru: See, the parts will never make the whole.
Suppose I will get you a pair of kidneys, one nice very healthy liver, heart, this, that, everything.
Okay, make it into one’s… another human being and give it to me, let me see.
It’ll not work like that, parts will not make a whole. Parts are there, yes. Now, if you want health also,
right now why I mention this, you know the health care b… industry becoming bigger than the food industry
is simply because of this because you have a kidney doctor, you have a lung doctor, you
have an eye doctor, you have a knee doctor. It is not far where there’ll be separate
doctor for your right eye and left eye (Few laugh) because there is a difference between the two.
There is a difference between the two. So tomorrow, its… go on specializing, you
will need hundred doctors to have a health check-up. By the time you get appointment from hundred
doctors, definitely you’ll be sick (Few laugh). So, specialization is a good thing to a point
but now we can’t stop it because see… we see one more thing and one more thing. If you
divide the atom, there are too many things there, so you will need specialists for all that. By the time
you get there, you will get lost because the sophistication of the physical
creation is such, for every atom you will need one specialist. And for
every subatomic particle, you need further specialists. So at that rate, what will you know, I’m asking?
You will not know anything. There is another way to know everything.
Simply by embracing something. Either by dissection you know or by embrace you know.
You know life only by inclusion. Dissection is a exclusivity process, elimination process. But if you want to know these people, you
know them only by inclusion not by elimination, isn’t it? So what is good for material things, you’re trying
to make it happen for every aspect of life. Life does not work like that. If you give this flower to a scientist, first thing he will do
is he’ll rip it apart, Yes. That is the way he will study it. Sanjeev Sanyal: Which will miss the point. Sadhguru: Yes (Laughs), he will know all parts
of it but he won’t know the flower. But the beauty of the flower, everything that you need
to know about life, in a way, this flower is the peak of that plant’s life, isn’t it? Sanjeev Sanyal: Yes. Sadhguru: Instead of absorbing that, instead
of including that within you, because every life’s aspiration is only to reach the
peak of whatever this life is possible, isn’t it? Whether you are an earthworm or a grasshopper
or a flowering plant or a mango tree or a human being, the only aspiration is to become a full-fledged piece
of life, isn’t it? By elimination, will that happen? So now, a global problem, if I don’t break it down,
how do I know? Only because you’re breaking it down, problems are multiplying. You know, in India, they
talk about certain forces like Mahishasura or somebody. The stories are if one drop of blood drops falls on
the ground, one more guy will rise. Another drop falls, another guy will rise.
That is what it is. Sanjeev Sanyal: Raktabeeja. Sadhguru: Hmm? Sanjeev Sanyal: It’s called raktabeeja. Sadhguru: Yes. I’m saying the raktabeej is
all we’re doing. We’re only complicating the world like never before.
We’re not solving problems, let’s at least admit that. We’re having sophisticated explanations for our
problems. Problems are not gone, isn’t it? Sanjeev Sanyal: So I’m going to change tack a little
bit here. You know, most of us here live in Singapore. We have… Many of us have children, who we are
bringing up in Singapore, outside of India. And we want to take some of this line of thinking
and pass it down to them. What are the, you know, one or two things that you
think are the critical parts of our culture and civilization, that I think we should try and get them to imbibe? Sadhguru: I see both your boys are in kurta
at least (Laughter). So… See, we need to understand this, what we
call as Indian culture is not a mode of dress, a mode of speech or a certain way of doing things.
Fundamentally, shifting life from belief to seeking. When I say shifting life from belief to seeking, people
feel their life is strong when they believe something. All these days, they’ve been talking about believing
in God. These days, it’s become a fashion to say,
“I believe in myself.” You believe in things that you do not know (Laughter). You can’t believe in something that’s here, either
you know it or you don’t know it, isn’t it? Yes or no? This is all the option is either you know
something or you don’t know something. Because you’re unwilling to admit you do
not know, you say, “I believe in it” because it gives you confidence,
but confidence without clarity. Confidence without clarity is a disastrous process. If
you have clarity, you will see everything the way it is. If you don’t have clarity, at least you must have
hesitation. But if you have confidence without clarity, you don’t see a damn thing but you’re dead
sure (Laughter). There are too many people like this,
believe me (Laughs). Sanjeev Sanyal: But the opposite of that is
there, that if you see everything clear, would you not get paralyzed (Both laugh)? Sadhguru: If reality is going to paralyze you,
then you have to live in hallucination. When I say belief, belief need not be of any
sense, you just believe because it gives you confidence. For a long time, people have believed in somebody
up there managing your life, Uparwala, if you’re a North Indian (Few laugh). So, first of all, we are sitting on a round planet
and it’s spinning. If you’re looking up, you’re invariably looking up in
the wrong direction, you’re on the equator in Singapore (Few laugh). You’re invariably looking up in the wrong direction. At least if you look towards Delhi, maybe
you’re looking northward little bit (Both laugh). So I’m saying, you are incapable of knowing
what is up and what is down in this cosmos. Nowhere is it marked, “This side up.” Have you seen “This side up” mark in the
cosmos, in the galaxies somewhere? No. You don’t know what is up, what is down. If you
go further south, even people in Australia, down under, they think they’re also looking up, isn’t it?
So there is no up-down business. This is why, in what is called as Indian ethos, the
fundamental things, which are essentially different from every other culture on the planet is,
one thing is there’s no belief system. Another thing is there’s no god because always
you have been told that your life is your karma. What this means is, karma means action or doing. When we say your life is your karma, what’s being said
is your life is your making, entirely your making. There is nobody else influencing from anywhere.
“But so many things are happening beyond me, how?” That is because, just tell me, today morning,
you woke up. From that moment to now, there are four types
of action – physical, mental, emotional and energy actions are happening. Every moment of your
wakefulness and sleep, it’s happening. From the moment you woke up till now, how much
of your activity or how much of your karma in body, mind, emotion and energy are you conscious of?
Hmm? How much do you think? Percentage, tell me. How much percentage do you
believe you have conducted consciously in body, in mind, in emotion and energy? Sanjeev Sanyal: Probably quite small. Sadhguru: Way below one percent, okay? You might have done few things consciously,
rest is all simply happening. When so much is happening unconsciously, the
results that happen out of that unconscious action, you try to attribute it to something. See right now, if I take this thing, if I
take this object and throw it up and I forgot, after some time it’ll come and land on my head.
Now I think, “Who did this to me” (Few laugh)? All right (Laughs)? If somebody looks suspicious
little bit, I’ll pounce on him because (Laughs) I don’t remember throwing this up (Few laugh). So, when ninety-nine percentage plus… ninety-nine
plus percentage is unconscious, obviously the results are not something that
you can account for. But it is entirely your making. When we said it’s entirely in your making,
when we said your life is your karma, in one word, we destroy the heaven and everything else. All the people whom you worship in that country,
are people who walked that geography at one time. We looked up to them because of certain qualities.
When I say certain qualities, for example Ram, He’s a big icon because you talking about UP,
Central UP (Few laugh). In Ayodhya and whatever, misfortunes, his life is
full of misfortunes. He’s a rightful king. Because of some political situation, he goes to the
forest to live in the jungle with his newly married wife, who is a princess.
She’s not made to live in the jungle. And his brother, out of his love, leaves his wife and
his family and goes behind them to take care of them. Oh, they lived in the forest means you watch some
stupid movie, where they were walking like this (Gestures) and golden-colored deer’s were
floating around and they had such a romantic life. No, I will tell you. You go and camp in the forest for
three months (Few laugh). Believe me, we can’t recognize you, you’ll become
like that in three months’ time (Few laugh). Yes. You don’t know what it means to live in a jungle. Not today, six or 7000 years ago, when it was fully on, jungle was fully on, not like today, it’s not
a reserve (Laughter). Entire country is forest, full of wildlife, living there with
a young woman, who is not trained to live there, is not a simple thing. It’s a severe
punishment for anybody. As if that was not enough, Ravana came and kidnapped
her (Laughter). Ravana was not a tiger, he was a lion (Laughter). So… And then the man goes in search of his wife. You know, like I was in a small town in Andhra
Pradesh and one little girl, one thirteen, fourteen-year-old girl stands up and asks,
“Sadhguru, they say that Rama went walking from all the way from Ayodhya to Sri Lanka to
find his wife. Is it true? How is it possible? It is not practical, isn’t it?” Then I looked at her and
said, “See, you’re still a little girl. But in a few years, you’ll find a man. When you find a man, do you want a man that
if you get lost, he will anyway come looking for you or he thinks it’s not practical and finds solution (Laughter/Applause)… finds solution in the neighbourhood (Laughter)?” Oh, she knows she wants a man who’ll come in search. So the man is so… whether he’s in love with her or
he is committed to his wife, he goes looking down south and finds her. After a huge battle, brings her back.
She’s fully pregnant. Again some political situations, again he
sends her to the forest. She bears children in the jungle, he doesn’t know
whether it’s boys or girls, no sonogram (Few laugh). He doesn’t know whether it’s boy or girl or boys or girls.
She delivers twins and he doesn’t know. And then he wages a war, he gets into a battle
with these boys, not knowing they’re his children. He could have killed them. If you kill your own children,
it’s the worst tragedy that can happen in your life, isn’t it? He was almost on the verge. He could have
killed them. Fortunately, he did not kill them. But if he had killed, he wouldn’t know, he would
have killed because he went out to kill them. With the intent of killing them, he went out
but somehow he did not succeed. And then she died in the jungle, he never saw her face.
Do you call this a successful life? I’m asking you, you must say something otherwise
I’m going to bless you (Laughter). Do you call this a successful life? Participants: No. Sadhguru: No, but we worship him. We worship him not because he was a super
success of the day. We worship him because it doesn’t matter what life
threw at him, he remained the same, equanimous. No matter what anybody did to him, he maintained
his dharma of being who he is. So we bow down to him, it doesn’t matter because
what life does to you is not always your choice. What you do is your choice, this is what karma means.
So he was completely in charge of his karma. World did all kinds of things to him but he
remained the same. He never became bitter, he never became hateful,
he never became angry. He continued to do what he was required to
do without being pulled off track. So for that quality, we worship him because when
we said our samskriti, you must understand the word samskriti. Sam means
equanimous, it also means exuberance. Kriti means to do life in an equanimous and
exuberant way. Equanimous not in a deathlike way, exuberant
not in a drunken way, equanimous but exuberant. If you conduct this life like this, this is
called as Bharati samskriti. So He’s an epitome of that. All kinds of things were done to him,
the worst kind of things. What worse things can happen to you than
other than what happen to Rama’s life tell me? Series of tragedies, isn’t it? Disaster after disaster.
But he is in samskriti. He conducts his life with full involvement
and equanimous. It doesn’t matter what his personal tragedies are. So this is why we worship him, not because
he was a super success. So our idea of success is this, if a man can go through
this life untouched, no matter what happens, poverty comes, wealth comes, success comes, failure
comes, he goes through it untouched, maintaining who he is, without losing his humanity,
then we say he’s a successful man. Then we say he’s a mahapurush.
So Rama is worshipped for that. Sanjeev Sanyal: Fabulous. This is… (Applause) This is a great point.

50 thoughts on “The Impact of Indian Civilization – Sanjeev Sanyal with Sadhguru

  1. Sadhguru I can't ever give enough thank to you for your wisdom showered upon us………………….just like J. Krishnamurti and Osho you have had a tremendous impact on my life…………

  2. Sadguru, you are amazing. You speak so effortlessly, so beautifully, so elegantly, so logically. I wish I was more like you!

  3. Sadhguru encompasses everything from forests,galaxies, atoms, human cultures in his consciousness .In a word he reveals himself as Brihma.

  4. when i started seeing this video… after few min ..I have raised, I know only Sadguru …do not know who is Sanjeev Sanyal …so I have passed the video …started finding about Sanjeev… and saw below video… he is gr8… I hope u guys also check this to know abt Sanjeev..

  5. Excellent talk. Indian Civilization is profound sense of Life & Life's experience.. Western has Logical (binary) experience of physical Life.

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