Web accessibility in civil society: Persons with disabilities in today’s educational environments

Web accessibility in civil society: Persons with disabilities in today’s educational environments


>>Hello and welcome. I’m Denise Anthony from
the Institute for Security, Technology, and Society
and we are very happy today to welcome our distinguished
speaker, Dr. Cyndi Rowland
who’s gonna be talking about Web accessibility issues. I wanted to mention
that this talk is part of the Dartmouth Center’s forum
theme this year on “Speak Out! Listen up!” And I think that’s very relevant
because if you want to speak out you– and use technology,
you have to be able– everyone has to be
able to access it. And certainly if you wanna
listen up which means, you know, getting access to
information or resources, if those are online
then we wanna make sure that those are accessible to
all individuals and all groups. And some of you might be here because I think there is now a
little bit more public attention to, especially accessibility of
college websites and resources. So I’ve been just
looking at The Chronicle of Higher Education has
had a couple of stories. They covered a study, an
NSF-funded study, in the summer in which they found that
college webpages remain widely inaccessible to people
with disabilities. Let’s see. And he also said something
that I think should be familiar to the computer security
and privacy community, too many of whom are here today. But the idea that accessibility
issues are often addressed after the fact. People build the website or
build the online resource and then say, “Oh, let’s make– we need to make this
accessible,” and they do it after the fact and
we know that security and privacy is often created in
much the same way it’s developed and then people say, “Oh, how
are we gonna make this secure or keep the information
private?” So, I think that there’ll
be lots of interest in that. I also wanted to mention in
the December Chronicle article that was– that highlighted the
best and worst college sites for blind students and it
looked at 183 universities. And Dartmouth was ranked
number 53 which I thought was at least we were
on the top third and I think that’s a–
that’s a good thing. But obviously, we ourselves
have a lot to learn and– in making our resources
accessible to all of our students. So with that in mind,
please join me in welcoming Dr. Cyndi Rowland,
she is the Executive Director of WebAIM which is a community
of developers, webmasters, individuals with disabilities
and others who’s goal is to make web, the
web more accessible to people with disabilities. And she’s also the technology
director of the National Center on Disability and Access to
Education, both of which are at Utah State University. So, Cyndi, welcome.>>Thanks, thanks. And I’m excited to be here. It’s my first time
in a handover. Oops, I guess I should not
walk to– I’m a wanderer. So, I promise that if I wonder
I’ll pick up the lovelier mic. [Laughter] Alright. So, what I can– what I can
mention here is that we’ve got about 50 minutes or so. And I wanna make sure that this
time is relevant for all of you. Of course I’ve prepared
way more material than I possibly get through. And I just wanna get
a sense of the content that folks we’re hoping to hear. So let me ask this
question first. How many of you are
familiar with the phenomenon of web accessibility
as it pertains to people with disabilities? Little show of hands. Okay. How many folks would say,
“You know what, I’m kind of new to this and could use
a bit of a primer.” Okay, so we’re pretty
well split. So what I’m going to do is
go through some of the pieces that I have prepared which do
walk through the phenomenon. For those of you that
are more experts, you can comment as you’d like. But I would like
this to be informal. I’m sure much to the chagrin
our videographer [laughter] who then won’t have
the audio for that. So, at any point in time
please just jump in. Let’s have this time
be an interactive time, a time where folks can get
information that they like. And before I do hop
in, anyone wanna shout out what they are hoping to
learn or to get or to interact with in the coming hour? [ Pause ]>>Yeah.>>I do a bit of sort of web
development in my spare time and I’ve gone through
sort of phases where I’m like a huge nerd for
making sure that all of the HTML is [inaudible]
correct and, you know, you’re separating out the– the visual, designing
from [inaudible].>>The content from the– yeah.>>Right. And then I’ve kind
of bounced down from that and said like, well, but
you know, I’m not sort of seeing these users that I
am supposed to be optimizing for and– I guess this
sort of like tension between the real
[inaudible] that it takes to make a semantically
correct, an accessible website. And the sort of like difficulty
from a developer’s perspective of seeing the value
that you get from that, how did you go [inaudible]?>>Okay. We will
definitely talk about. Any other things folks
would like to visit? Yeah>>I like to know what kind of
standards are upheld and try to look at all that so if this
accessible or not accessible.>>Okay. We can do that too.>>And how big is the– we wanna
think about it as a problem, how extensive is this. How– what do we need
to do something about it and what would that take.>>Okay, good. So, I’ve got these three. Well, at certain points when
I think I’ve covered it, I’ll ask you guys if I have. And if I haven’t, you know,
just keep [inaudible] me, okay? Anything else? Alrighty. Okay. So, this is no surprise
to anyone. The web has completely
transformed our society. I’m sure you all feel that as
do people with disabilities. But the effects for them are– are certainly different than
the effects that you feel because they’re seeing this
transformation that is just out of reach for them. So a question that I have is– oh, before I get
to the question. Here is my kind of advanced
organizer for the session. This is stuff that I prepared. I wanna talk briefly about the
context, the user experience, a little bit about laws. And then in WebAIM’s journey
I’m gonna make sure I hit all of the questions
that you guys have. But, you know, when you think
about your own experience, you know I’m thinking about
the very first question that you brought up which is
I’m not seeing the benefits from my use– there– or my–
the expenditure of my time. And I had an interesting
conversation. I think it was with you, Tom,
we were– Wait, wait a minute. It was somebody today
who indicated that on this campus there are
no individuals who are blind. Does any– would anyone want
to counter that assertion. This is– [ Inaudible Remark ]>>Well, I didn’t have that
conversation with you but–>>Oh yeah.>>On graduate program and
certain students facilities and that is true as
far as I can tell and has come to us
from services.>>Yeah. Which is very
interesting in and of itself because the national data
on students that enroll in postsecondary education
with vision impairments or even just the
general population, 4 percent of the general
population have severe vision impairments as in they
are blind, legally blind, something what you would– have an expectation that they
would need an accommodation of some sort. So if Dartmouth College
has none of that, well, I’m just wondering
what that’s saying, so I’m thinking back
to your experience. You are– I’m assuming
doing some of your work for the college and you’re
wondering why am I doing this. There may be a different
context that play, one that we can’t
entirely discuss here. But it’s– I think it’s an
interesting discussion to have at the level of the college. Because why would it be that
there would not be, you know, predicted levels of
participation by people with disabilities
on this campus. And I hate to use the
bus analogy but I’m going to at this point in time. There was before the Americans
with Disabilities Act, the ADA was enacted, they were
getting comments from lots of people when bus
drivers and owners of bus companies were
pushing back saying, “Well, why would we need to put lifts
in our buses because no one with wheelchairs ride our buses? Why are you making us do this?”>>And of course people
with disabilities said, “We aren’t there ’cause
we can’t get on the bus.” Is there a possibly
of phenomenon here that some students who
might want to come are at a disadvantage,
and maybe not. Actually you guys have
had a lot of efforts in making your sites accessible. So I’m not trying to infer that
that’s, you know, the case. But it does speak to
your issue of, you know, where are my efforts going if
I’m not seeing these people? So, we’ve got lots of
folks who are disadvantaged by inaccessible web
content and I’ll get to a better definition
of that in a bit. But folks that have vision
problems, folks that are deaf or severely hard of hearing,
which actually is me in any bar. [Laughter] You know, I automatically have a
hearing impairment is what I’m telling you. And a lot of you have
hearing impairments in labs if they are– if there’s
a requirement for them to be really quiet because
he can’t turn off the sound. So you functionally have a
hearing impairment yourself. Motor function refers
to the dexterity. Sometimes people don’t have
the control, the stamina, the precision to use
standard mouse and keyboard, certainly individuals
with cognitive impairments and that runs the gamut
from traumatic head injuries that we may see in individuals
who’ve been in car accidents or returning veterans. We may see that in folks that
have developmental disabilities or even some serious
learning disabilities would be considered, you know,
a cognitive impairment. Seizure activities, and then the
last one, age-related processes, actually I’m starting to
now fall into that which is, you know, combinations
of any of the above. So those are typically the
folks that we’re talking about when we are talking
about web accessibility and what is– what
it is affecting. So what does it affect? Well, it affects the web, and
I’m skipping ahead in my content but I’m gonna do it anyway. About eight and a half
percent of the US population, this is based on
a census in 2000. We can’t wait to get our
little mitts on the– this last, you know, census. But about eight and half percent of the population have
disabilities of an extent that you would expect would
inhibit web or computer use. So we’ve got some text
about who it– who it– is gonna impact and the amount that it will– would
likely impact. But then a question is
what does it impact? So just throw out some ideas. So, how are you guys
using the web? Some of you are students,
some of you are faculty, some of you are staff. So, what web content
are we talking about here at this college? Yeah.>>Web documents that we use for
assignments and then podcasts for like audio and
video and [inaudible].>>Great. So course content. Okay. So that’s one. What’s another piece of web
that if you are one of those in the group you
might be using that?>>Web– sometimes
survey, even a quiz online, or even just other
kinds of survey online.>>For– for specifically
for classes.>>For class.>>So, I’m thinking
assessments within class. Okay. So that’s another. Any others?>>Online research
[inaudible] library.>>Perfect. Okay.>>Ticket purchases.>>Exactly. And what’s your favorite ticket
to purchase here on this campus?>>Me?>>Yeah.>>Dartmouth football team.>>Okay, alright. [ Laughter ]>>And you probably hate to
relegate that to someone else to have to purchase for you. They might get the wrong seat. Put you on the wrong side. That would be–>>Yeah.>>Horrible, horrible
[inaudible]. Anything else? It’s interesting that mostly,
with the exception of football, you guys have been talking
about the student side. What about staff and faculty? Do any of you need the
web to conduct your job? Oh, I do and frankly
if I didn’t have it, I think they’d have
to just let me go. We’ve got just a lot of
things happening in the web, things that maybe you were
thinking and you thought, oh, this is too schmaltzy
to be really talking in a group this size, so
I’ll just sit and think about it but not say it. We actively recruit
students using the web. That kind of front page
PR piece is so important. Do you know that it
cost about 4,000 dollars to recruit a single high quality
student on a college campus? And to the extent that
we are wanting to recruit from diverse communities, it
is a very expensive proposition to think that you’re going to
get high quality individuals with disabilities if your web
presence that you’re using to recruit isn’t even available
to them, so forget about it. [Laughter] Of course
the admission process, the financial aids process. I even think about housing. I think about employment
not just of students but also of faculty and staff. Of course the courses
and the assignments and the assessment
processes are part of that. But what about the
campus newspaper? ‘Cause assuming that’s
all digital now, correct? And I bet– I’m assuming that Dartmouth has
a Facebook presence and uses other social media
possibly to– or the– is Dartmouth using
Twitter, does anyone know? They are. Okay. Other social media outlets? Does Dartmouth an
island on Second Life or anything like that? [Laughter] No. Maybe. [ Simultaneous Talking ]>>I don’t know.>>YouTube.>>YouTube? Okay. Which– up here. I guess is where this
is gonna land somewhere, so the question will be
will this be captioned? If you are an individual
who’s deaf, could you understand what my
lips are saying right now? I don’t know. So we got a lot of uses for
the web and it’s– it’s very– it’s not just segregated
to departmental offerings and course catalogues. It’s not just segregated
to classes and assignment and testing. It is everything. It is how the staff
member– in fact, Denise, are you gonna process– who is processing in
your office my travel?>>Nicole, Carol or Sarah.>>Oh well.>>And they are not here.>>Okay, okay. So Sarah is gonna have to get into Banner [phonetic]
to process my travel. I can tell you right now Banner
would not allow Sarah to do that if she had a
visual impairment. So then who does the job
that Sarah is suppose to do so that my travel
gets processed? It is a huge problem in
high red and I should say that I’m using education
as one sector as an example because I could be having
the same conversation if I was talking about
business, if I was talking about government,
if I was talking in any other social sector, we could be having a
parallel conversation. But I figured you guys
wouldn’t want to have that conversation as much. We know that we are all moving
along here in using the web to teach 21st century
learning skills. There’s this wonderful
dance that happens. How did– how did you
guys learn to use the web? Anyone? Well, if you’re like me,
you learn to use it by using it. So to the extent that any
one else did it for you, you didn’t learn to that. And that is what’s happening a
lot for our students, faculty and staff with disabilities. In our process to help them
out, we work around the web and have someone
else do it for them which renders them
frankly impotent when they leave this campus in having harnessed
the power of the web. But we’ve got lots of
learning management systems. We got lots of open
source materials, very cool Web 2.0ey
things, mobile technologies in education have
just gone just crazy, gaming and immersive
environment as well. If any of you are on
Second Life, I had mentioned to someone earlier today. I’m Cyndi [inaudible] on
world, so come and find me. And in education,
we’re not only dealing with our own campus stuff but
were dealing with how it is that we are collaborating
with other campuses, sharing distance learning
opportunities and sharing across country borders. A number of countries, and
we’ll get to this a little later as well, have regulations
that deal with accessibility. So to the extent that
Dartmouth is not on board with it right now
which actually it is. I can– I– that’s
my sense of it. A lot of work to be done but I think theoretically
folks are on board here. To the extent that
this work is happening, you’re gonna be better
positioned to move out in this– in the ways in which technology
is innovating right now.>>We know we’ve got to
deal with lots of issues of coordination, collaboration,
interoperability across lots of different technologies,
different media, all of these. So, we have already
talked about this data. I’m trying to think if there’s
anything on here that you– that I didn’t mention. Oh, I guess it would
be that about 9 percent of incoming freshmen are
reporting a disability. Is that consistent with
what you’re seeing here?>>Yes.>>It is. So, you mirror that but you just don’t
mirror the latter. Okay.>>Yeah, the demographics
of that 9 percent.>>Are different. So, more students that
have registered themselves with your office have
learning disabilities.>>Have what [inaudible]
of disabilities that could include the so
called learning disabilities.>>Right, right.>>That’s a phrase
I avoid insidiously.>>Cognitive disabi– ?>>Learning disabilities.>>Learning disabilities, yeah. Well, that is–>>I think is an accurate.>>Yeah, it’s certainly
controversial [inaudible] that. Okay. Yeah, yeah yeah.>>I have a question. So, it’s very hard for me to,
well, comprehend, to read just about anything that has
moving context– contents. So a page with a
cycling image basically or probably lowers my reading
comprehension by maybe like, I don’t know, 30
percent 50 percent? Is that a problem
that– I can– I totally. I cannot, I physically– I’m
physically repulsed by webpages that cycle flash ads
that have moving images that I cannot stop. So, I’m well equipped to deal
with that but does something like that count for
cognitive impairment or– I imagine there are people who
have this, who are more inclined down the– you know, to the
Asperger, autistic, whatever– whatever that spectrum is. Does that count [inaudible]
with cognitive disability?>>Yeah– well, what I can
say is the phenomenon you’re describing co-occurs
with people that have– I mean, I can answer almost
the mirror of your question. It is common for people that
have cognitive disabilities to have a problem with that
level of focus and attention. Because as soon as some
stimulus starts distracting, the attention goes
there and it’s hard to get the attention back
on to the main content. At the same time, it doesn’t
mean that the presence of that somehow is diagnostic
of a cognitive disability. And I don’t know about
the rest of you guys, but I myself am personally
repulsed with the flashing, strobing. It– physically I have a moment where I think am I gonna
throw up or get a headache. And I have to go, I
have to make it go away. So, I think that
that is something that happens to a lot of people. A long time ago WebAIM created a
simulation on having an overload of cognitive function, not
that we were really thinking that we were simulating
an individual that have a cognitive
disability. But it was really interesting
to get a lot of visual stuff on the page and you’re
supposed to somehow be focusing on something else and it’s
just nearly impossible. So I think that that
is something that is a common experience
not only for people with cognitive disabilities
but apparently for the rest of us users. And we are probably considered
that just really bad usability. And there’s a nice overlap
between accessibility features and usability features
I might add. So, did I answer that question?>>Okay.>>Okay.>>There was a talk
by [inaudible] of West Point sampling when
interfacing violating the users for whatever commercial
advertising game that– so, he collected real
examples of those interfaces, of those webpages, all sorts
of profound [inaudible]. But the interesting
thing for me was that I just couldn’t
deal with those pages.>>Yeah. I don’t know, I
think we’re all wired little differently and, you know,
your neural pathways– I don’t know why my
computer is doing this, but I will tell it to stop. [laughter] But they
give you a headache. Alright. So, I just wanna
remind folks that if at any point anyone is
thinking, well, would we do this for such a low, you know,
percentage of the population. I would wanna remind
folks of the importance of including everyone in
our society because that is when our society
benefits maximally. And I think you all knew
this little individual here, Stephen Hawking who has
severe disabilities and is one of the most brilliant
minds in our world today. And if wasn’t for technology,
we wouldn’t have some of these discussions that we
have as a result to his work. Alright. I wanted
to just spend– I’m gonna hope to
spend 8 minutes tops, talking about the context
of users with disabilities and I’m gonna breeze by a lot of
stuff just because it’s already after 5 and I need
to get moving here. But we’ll see. Okay. So, we’ve got folks who
are blind or have low vision and if you happen on
the webaim.org website, you’ll see articles, you’ll see
some video that we have there and then you’ll see
this very, very old, very tired screen
reader simulation. But I’m gonna play it just for
one minute, so those of you that have never heard that–
in fact let me ask that. Is there anyone here for whom
hearing a screen reader would be a new experience? Okay. Alright. So, if I’m blind,
what’s happening if I’m gonna use a piece
of assistive technology that is going to read
essentially the code, a string of code that’s gonna
read the HTML that is back there in a way that’s logical. And let me, I believe
I’ve queued this up so let me go to it. Okay. So I’m not even going
to– look at that, 2000, this is how old this is. It’s hysterical. And you are going to hear it
at a very low rate of speed. Screen reader users
listen to their web cont– content about 10 times as
fast as you’re gonna hear it. But what I’m gonna do is have
you listen just for a minute and I’m not even gonna
let you see the page that you’re looking at, but I
want you just to kind of hear and see if anything is
making sense for you, okay?>>University of the Antarctic
home, table with 3 columns in 7 rows link, graphic, link
for prospective students, link graphic number nine
hundred sixty-five billion, one hundred fifty-one million, four hundred eighty-one
thousand nine hundred fifty, link graphic number nine
hundred sixty-five billion, one hundred fifty-one million
five hundred thirty-five thousand, nine hundred ninety,
link graphic link for alumni, link news vertical bar, link calendar vertical
bar, link campus diverse.>>Okay. So how is that? How would you like to
experience the web this way? And what was up with
the goofy numbers? Any– any ideas?>>Colors possibly,
the colors in the text.>>That’s a very good–
this was written so– and let me explain to
you what has happened. Let me go to. Okay, so this is
the 10-year old site and I’ll tell you 10 years ago
this was just a hot design. University of the Antarctic, learning like the penguins is
the moniker for this university. We created this template
just for the purpose of the simulation and
it’s an image map. So the goofy thing that you
were hearing was actually some coordinates on the servers. You know, screen readers try to find any information
that’s logically intuitive and can pull it out. And not it would do
that differently. But any– any kind of contents that a screen reader
cannot find automatically, it will just grab when it can. So things that are images,
that are not text elements need to have text elements put in. That’s as simple as that. Okay. Now, I’m gonna have
you listen one more time. Let’s see. I’m gonna take this out. Alright. And I’m going to go
into the– a class calendar or– I’m sorry, class schedule
and I want you to listen. It’s a big snowy day, first day
of class and you need to find out what room number your
Biology 250 class will be in. Because you don’t wanna
go to the wrong place, you know it’s a snowy day. So let’s have you listen
to this [inaudible].>>Link survival
classes vertical bar, link fixed new vertical bar,
link apply vertical bar, link library vertical
bar, link history, link contact information
vertical bar, link class schedule
verti– enter. Class schedule supplement. Link back to home page. Class schedule supplement, the
following classes were added after the official
schedule was printed. This page is updated
daily at 2300 hour so availability is current
as of yesterday at that time. Table with 10 columns in 5 rows,
department code, class number, section, max enrollment, current
enrollment, room number, days, start time, end time,
instructor, bio 100, 1, 15, 13, 5, Mon comma Wed comma Fri
10 o’clock, 11 o’clock, [inaudible] 100, 2, 15, 7,
5, 2 comma Thu 11 o’clock, 12:30 [inaudible]
250, 1, 15, 9, 6, 2 comma Thu 9 o’clock,
10:30 [inaudible].>>Okay, how’d you do? What room you going to?>>2 comma Thu. [ Laughter ] [ Simultaneous Talking ]>>That was great.>>So, question.>>Yeah. Do people actually
develop an ability to keep track of this possibly going on?>>Well. No, you
know– and this is of course showing a
problem, not a solution. You would be amazed at the
auditory recall of folks that have had to deal
in these environments. So yes, some can. But this is not what we
wanted to have people do.>>So, a direct question
will be then since all of this webpage is an object,
so [inaudible] you would want to be able to interact with
like querying it, saying give me after you actually
located the table and heard the rows and columns.>>Right.>>Instead of listening
to the stream, you want to say give me the
third column and the second–>>Or what– for folks that
are creating web content in standard code, there is a way to link your table headers
with your table rows. Oh yeah, [inaudible]. And the data in the cells are
associated with both of those. So, all the better that I can
find out that Biology 250, let’s say if I follow that,
that room number is 6. That’s all the better, which
is of course where we are now. For those of you that are
web developers, you’re doing that now and you’ve
been doing it for your [inaudible], correct? Yes.>>Are there browsers– are there browsers that
would support the plug-in to query objects?>>Well, I think– I don’t
even know that that’s necessary because I think that the work around is executing
appropriate standard code. So that you know, that the data
cells are gonna be associated with the headers and the rows.>>The standard language for this would be
XQuery or XQL, right? So, I could imagine let’s say
players on this game, right, it’s a [inaudible] game who
programmed their clients–>>Right.>>– can easily
get the gist of XQL.>>Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. One of the reasons that I
brought up this example is that I wanted to make the– I
wanted to juxtapose accessible and usable for you guys. This information that you
heard was accessible to you because you heard it, and it
was completely unusable value. So we got to make sure
that as we’re talking about accessibility,
we’re not just talking about can elements be detected,
rather can they be used by the individual that’s
receiving that content. And that seems to be a huge
problem in the education space. And I’m not entirely
sure I know why, maybe it’s sometimes we’re
not thinking of how it is that a user needs– how they’re
using the information I guess is what I’m thinking. Okay, so let me get out of
this real quick and go back. So that was just
a really quick– and Sarah, you guys have– do you have like in a
lab here JAWS loaded so people can hear
their stuff, okay. If anyone is interested in
listening to their own content on the screen reader, you
can go to freedom scientific and you can get free 30 minute
uses, 30 minutes at a time. They have it pretty
tightly controlled. Okay. I wanna just mention that
when we’re talking about vision, we’re talking about an array of
things, we’re not just talking about blindness but
also color blindness. So here we go, this
is your pop quiz. Okay, green mushrooms,
okay to eat and the red ones will
kill you, alrighty. So, which ones are
you guys eating? If you had color blindness, essentially this may be how
you would experience the page. Now as an instructor, I know
that this is how I designed it. But to the extent that
I ever use color alone to denote important content,
boy, I could be disadvantaging, let’s see, I believe it’s 5
percent of the male population and 2 percent or something like
that of the female population. So that’s the easy one. And in fact for those of you that are web developers
vischeck.com will allow you to see your content in an array of different color
blindness schemas. The last pieces of vision
impairments are those that have low vision. Essentially they blow their
text up to an amazing degree and you wanna make sure
you’re using real text and not pixelated text. But of course we’ve got folks that are deaf and
hard of hearing. And you know how–
you know how that is, you need to provide captions. It’s really not that tough. I’m gonna show you a quick
little video of one of our– at least I think I
am, one of our users.>>If a person refers to me as being disabled,
it doesn’t offend me. I feel that, yes–>>By the way, this is
captioned and I have no idea where the captions just went. I think it’s ’cause I– I
didn’t open it in QuickTime. Anyway, my apologies, this
is typically captioned.>>In– I guess technically
I am disabled. I have an inability to hear. However we’re more of
a linguistic minority.>>This is where
the sound begins.>>Oh really. I wouldn’t have even known that. I would have just been aware
of the visual picture but not of the auditory stimulus. So it seems like there’s some
kind of interaction or swamping that takes place here. [ Inaudible Remark ] [ Pause ]>>And then it looks like
I guess this is coming to the heart and
then it’s passing out another section
of the heart. That sign is hard to read. I’m guessing that there’s–
they’re speaking that’s sort of going on but again
I’m unaware as to what they’re saying. And I have the responsibility
now to assume what my [inaudible]. There’s a lot of guess
work involved in this. As I looked at the program,
I found it interesting. There was a lot of
information that I was able to read due to the text. There were also lots
of graphic images. And because of those things, I was able to assume
what was on there. A friend of mine who is
hearing was able to tell me that there was spoken
information on there. It didn’t seem to
include everything. There were some important
bullets though I believe in some of the parts where they had
some audio types of instruction. It was more of a puzzle that I
had to put the pieces together to try to figure out
what it was meaning. I think that the most
important thing that’s done is that when there’s
a voice on a video, there needs to be captioning. You know, that it doesn’t
mean to be this fancy art or this extravagant graphics. It’s just that everything
that’s said, they just need to caption it. We need access to that. I mean it’s just that simple. I don’t have any mental
problems, I’m not mentally slow, I don’t have any disabilities. I can think, I can read, I
can write, I can do anything that anyone else can
do except for hear. And I want that person
to respect me. And I think that that would
solve a lot of problems.>>So that’s– that is
Curtis, and again my apologies. I have no idea where
the captions that we very keenly
put on there went to. More and more rich media
is being put online. This is becoming more
and more of an issue. Captioning is– and
I could have a– talk to folks for an
hour about captioning. If anyone is interested in
that, we can talk later. We’ve got folks that have an
array of motor skill problems and there are adopted
switches that are used that essentially emulate
keyboard and mouse functions. But the real takeaway, I
actually love to have– pull up a complicated
site like CNN. And you know you’d essentially
hit the tab key to move from one link to the next and
have folks count how many times that might take me to get
to like local weather. So try that some time at home. Can’t use your mouse, all
you can use is your tab key, find your local weather. But for some folks, hitting
the tab key is pressing on a switch like this. Now, how many times
might I have to do this to get to my local weather? You know after a while you just
wonder how folks even persist because we can make things
so difficult for them. And of course to the extent that any developer ever does
something that is dependent on a mouse, like a mouse
only kind of command, then that content is
not available to someone that has complex motor problems. I love this one,
it’s just an old– we’ve got in our state
Zions Bank, but I love this. If you can use a mouse,
you can get a house. So I’m thinking in
Utah, if you’re a person with a physical disability,
you ain’t getting no houses. Uh-um, it’s not gonna happen. But– and that was, you
know, tongue and cheek but the reality is that a lot of our society’s web
infrastructure is in fact mouse dependent
and it is a huge problem. Same thing, cognitive
skills, there are articles, there are some simulations. But we’ve really gotta be
thinking through some of this. You know, what does it
mean to create a site that is gonna be welcoming,
inviting, and helpful to people with cognitive disabilities? WebAIM has engaged in a lot of
research and we’ve got a lot of writing on developing
web content with an eye towards people
with cognitive disabilities. So I’d invite you to
come to our site and mock around on some of that stuff. But we’ve– we also have to
think about this in the ways in which our society
is moving forward. I think you guys will all,
you know, agree that one of the wonderful
things about something like Craigslist is it’s
all right there, you know. It’s all smashed on the front
and you’re one click from just about whatever you want. But look at the cognitive
load issue, you know. What does that do as
you’re trying to figure out where you wanna go? And to the extent that education
sites are front-loading content, this could be creating
some additional problems for an array of users. And I– I like to say that this
picture is me in about 5 years. You know, as we age, we
start getting a combination of problems. And seizure disorders are real. Photo epilepsy is a disorder
that can be brought on by, as you said, [inaudible]
the flashing, blinking, crazy animation stuff. I’m sure you guys have all heard
of, you know, the phenomenon in Japan, you know, the release
on new crazy thing and you know, thousands of kids going
to seizure states because, you know, the big
blinking and flashing, it’s– I shouldn’t laugh. It’s a horrible,
horrible problem. Okay. I want to just
talk a little bit about some other
national pictures here. In education, the–
the rate of problems in accessibility is high. Now, someone asked
about standards. I think you have. Right now, we have two in this
country, two prevailing sets of technical standards. And the statistics were
created as folks went to one of those standards, and I’ll
explain that in a minute. But the two are, the web
content accessibility guidelines of the World Wide
Web Consortium’s Web Accessibility Initiative. So it’s the W3C created
workgroup, the WAI, and they created the WCAG. So that is a, you know,
alphabet [inaudible]. I don’t know what it is. They are now WCAG, Web Content
Accessibility Guidelines are in version 2. So WCAG 2.0, are the
prevailing professional international standards. But it’s important to know that the W3C is not
a regulatory body. They are just a group of good
folks that wanna, you know, integrate and organize the web. So nobody can go
anywhere and say, “You have to do the
WCAG standards.” Now, likewise in the US, the federal government has
created Section 508 standards for accessible electronic and information communication
technologies. Where the web is concerned,
there are 16 specific standards. But that set of standards is
only for the federal government. So we got these 2
sets of standards. One is not required
because it’s international. One is required if you
are a federal entity. So what does a group
like Dartmouth do? Yeah.>>There are some funding– federal funding sources that
if you accept the funds, you make yourselves
subject to 508.>>The 508, I’m glad
you brought that up. 508 was intended as a–
in part for procurement. So the federal government is
saying that we will not create, procure, maintain, or deliver
anything that is not accessible. So if they pay me a gazillion
dollars to create something that they’re gonna use,
of course it makes sense that they’re gonna pass
that regulation on to me. But it’s funny ’cause as we
start talking about colleges and universities, you know,
what is the obligation? Well, that– there
is an obligation and that actually sits in
section 504, the Americans with Disabilities Act. But where the standards
are concerned, it’s not always clear
what’s the best way to go. And folks are making lots
of different decisions. But right now, those
are the two standards that have been vetted the most
and have the most kind of energy around the two of them. So I hope I answered
that question for you. Alright. I don’t know if you
noticed this but, you know, we’re talking about
10-year difference here. This is actually data that
started the WebAIM group. This was a project that
we– and we followed this, created in 26 colleges and universities
across all 50 states. And we followed them
longitudinally and it never really got better. Now, this was a different
effort that, you know, and the difference is
this was a homepage and this was one level down. But still, you know, even if
you were to raise the percentage of pages that didn’t have
problems, I don’t know, 5 percentage points,
you’re still– this is a tremendous
nightmare right now. Yeah.>>Coming down on
some of the numbers, I’m visiting from Australia. And we had problems with that. We have national
university system and very few private
universities. And so, because they’re
all funded by the federal government,
the federal government gets to dictate the universities
what they have to do, otherwise they wouldn’t
get their funding. So, there was a huge [inaudible]
after the Sydney Olympics because the Sydney Olympic for
itself was very inaccessible.>>And a lawsuit was brought. [ Laughter ]>>Yes. And so universities
are getting very scared by that in Australia at least. And the moment we
are being required to change all the lecture
material as an academic from at least whatever it
is at the moment to PDFaid to make it accessible. And that’s a huge– I don’t
wanna use the word “burden” because that sounds
the wrong thing. But it’s exactly
what we have to do. And if we don’t do it,
funding is dropped as opposed to there is no additional
funding to do it. And it’s interesting at that
last point you said this is 2 pages down or something like
that, or top page and 1 down. That’s exactly what we have
been told and it’s always, you can imagine, a top page
and 1 down, very simple pages. And after that, they get
very complex and detailed.>>Get murky, yeah. And probably quickly
inaccessible.>>I’m sure, yeah.>>Yeah. Well, we actually–
we get to that a lot of levels but I’m almost too embarrassed
to even try out the data on 3 and 5 levels down. I mean it’s diminishing return I
guess, is what we can tell you. You know, Australia
has done amazing things with accessibility. I mean in as much as, I’m sure
it is [simultaneous talking]. Yeah, it is. It absolutely is. That same pattern may repeat
itself here in the states. Just last night, the Department
of Justice closed an advancement and proposed rulemaking to
explicitly include the internet in the Americans with
Disabilities Act. And if they decide to
promulgate some rules, everyone from Barnes & Noble, or Amazon to Dartmouth College
will need to address issues of inequity, potential
discrimination, and web content. So much better for all of
you to make decisions now to slowly transition to what
you want it to be rather than waiting to the last minute
where someone says, “Now, you gotta do this,” in something
that doesn’t even make sense. I mean the idea for me of
creating PDFs of everything, the PDFs which are usually
not accessible to begin with. I mean it just [simultaneous
talking] sounds like nothing.>>No, it’s– we cannot
reproduce PDFs and everything because that, for the majority
of our students, it’s visible on the screen and printable
and we got one to produce two or three versions
[inaudible] in synchronization. But there is this version of PDF
apparently, excuse my ignorance, PDF/A which represents–
stands for accessibility, and it’s produced by Microsoft
tools but it’s not produced by most open source or
Macintosh-based tools.>>Interesting.>>And so, whenever governments
and Microsoft get together, all of us left wings
get upset at that.>>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it’s all about
tagging what’s in the PDF but I know that’s going
in a different direction than we have intended here. But I appreciate
your– your experience. And you know, it’s– that’s–
that is attention, you know. How do we, in civil society,
make things available to everyone at what cost to
the rest of the community? And I know that parallel
discussions we had when the Americans with
Disabilities Act was looking, was enacting the
physical regulations, yet you will have ramps. Yup, if you got stairs, you
gotta have an alternate access and elevator or something. Yup, I’m sorry, the doorways
actually have to be wide enough for a wheelchair to get through. People were in [inaudible]
about that, you know. It was gonna ruin
western civilization as we– as we knew it then. And you know, in this country,
it was a very contentious time and I think we’re now on
the other side of it enough to realize that that was an
important social investment that has had great benefits. But the digital stuff is tough
and we keep moving forward.>>You comment on the
gentleman in the front row. As an example, I have to
produce more accessible teaching materials that I know. We asked all the students to naturally announce not
necessarily to the professor but announce their disabilities. I mean, no, that we don’t
have any challenged students in the class and we don’t have to produce materials
[inaudible] in effect.>>Right. [ Inaudible Remark ]>>PDF is a largely
PDF development and complication was widely
driven by DRM concerns. DRM is the technological
opposite of open. Open is the technological
cognate of accessible because open formats are
mostly designed to be built on by everyone, that
is to say they– they present the simplest
forcible view of inclination, this ambiguous view
of information. Such was the intention
of W3C for example in all of their standards
recommendations, not on the accessibility
recommendations. PDF on the other hand,
was intended as– one of its selling
point was that, well, publishers that will be
DRM in– in the format. It will not be so easy to access
in ways you don’t approve of.>>All those wonderful
proprietary technologies that we have to live with, so
I have to say I am an open gal, but lost that battle
a long time ago. Alright. Let’s see. On this campus, when content
isn’t accessible, what happens? So, I am the first student
of Dartmouth that comes and I am blind and I’m
using a screen reader so I can’t get this stuff. What is gonna be? What is gonna happen? Yeah.>>Well, from a student
perspective, you’ll have to go to student’s office and
then we have to [inaudible] with professor and try
to get the work around. So, rather than like creating
a content to be accessible, you have the content
and then you figure out and make it accessible
afterwards.>>Bingo.>>Well, for it to [inaudible],
first you’re gonna have to self identify
[inaudible] to a process.>>Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.>>You’re gonna have to–>>Correct.>>Make sure you have a
faculty member who [inaudible].>>But eventually, we get
to the fact that it’s going to be an accommodation,
which incept by being a fancy word
for a post hoc fix. And you know, if ever
there was an opportunity to get something right, technology provides
us that opportunity. And doing after the fact
fix, pretty much ensures that that student
or faculty member or staff won’t be getting it
in real time, which is kind of the point of the
web, isn’t it? I go from this link
to this link. Oh, I’m interested in
this and, oh shoot! Now I can’t get it, now
I have to ask somebody to somehow transform that in a
way that I can make sense of it. We’ve got a lot of problems
of the accommodation model which is the pervasive model
across all social sectors for content that
is not accessible. It’s reactive, it– it’s
just self perpetuated because to the extent that– that we continue to
allow accommodations, then folks assume that that’s
the way it should be taken care of and we never really
get to the place where we’re saying how can this
be made natively accessible. Now I don’t know, you know
in your country how much– we’ll always have
accommodations, don’t get me wrong
because when we’re talking about accessibility, we always
have to ask ourselves accessible for whom and in what context. And trust me, if I’m
making content accessible for blind individual at my
university, that’s different than making it accessible
for the reincarnation of Helen Keller in Ghana. See what I ‘m saying? There is– when we’re
talking about accessibility, we always gotta put
it in context. And yet we’ve got to be
thinking about how it is that creating natively
accessible content can also coexist with minor
bits of accommodations. Most folks in education have
this mindset that they’ll go to the DSO, Disability Service
Office or into a department of special ed and that those
people take care of it, so there’s never any personal
ownership that as an instructor, as a faculty member, as a staff
member, I’m a staff assistant and every quarter,
I post a schedule for my department
on their website. Where am I owning that when
I create that word document, I need to have proper headings
and use styles and not hit tab, bold and underline, because
that’s my responsibility. And if I’m not thinking
that way, then I’m thinking
somebody else does that, that’s somebody else’s job and it perpetuates the
problem of accommodation. We’ve got to get beyond that,
we’ve got to get to a place where we all see it as part of
our own work and we all see it as something that can be
accomplished natively. I’m gonna zip pass
this really quickly, some of the legal stuff. We just say that there– there is a lot of law and I’m
just gonna mention Section 504 was the first piece of civil
rights legislation for people with disabilities in the US. Section 508 defines what– what
accessibility is in the context of federal government. There is the application
of the Americans with Disabilities Act which– although there have been a
number of court cases on this, because it was signed in the law
in 1990, or as I like to say, before Al Gore invented
the internet. The word internet didn’t
appear in ADA legislation. And ADA in titles 2 and 3
talk about covered entity as being one of these 12
places of public accommodation and the public accommodation
is like a place of education, a place of commerce, a place
of employment and people over the years have
argued in courts that the internet
is not in place.>>So how can the law, the ADA, apply to something
that is not in place? But of course, I like to
say, if it is not a place, then why is it that I am
there and how did I get there? Anyway, they’re– they’re trying
to get this all figured out and there have been
many successful lawsuits against inaccessible web
content under ADA regulation. Twenty six separate
states have state laws. New Hampshire is
not one of them. But there’s also the United
Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities
as an international law and they have section 9 which is
its own section in that treaty that deals with accessibility,
both of the built environment and of information
communication technologies. And then of course there are
country-specific laws, the– the EU has a 2010 initiative
that is actually being rolled up in 2011 but, you
know, that’s the EU. What can you say? There are lots and lots of reasons why folks
would wanna be thinking about the legal issue. I’m just gonna mention their
key concerns are the timeliness rational that there is no
way for an accommodation to be timely if I’m having to
wait 3 days, 5 days for content to come back to me in a
way that I can perceive it or an effective communication
issue ’cause the law says that the– an accommodation
must be as effective as the regular communication. But if you look at web content,
you know, it’s also interlinked. How is it possible
for it ever to be as effective as– it’s tough? Reasonableness of
accommodation, again, if you’re having the people
read content for people. Also the nature of the 24/7
context of the web, you know, 365 days a year, I
can go to, you know, this and so in such site. If I have someone who’s
gonna help or assist me and they’re only
available between 9 and 5, Monday to Friday that we
don’t have anything that’s in any way could– and the
fact that institutions, all sectors have affirmative
obligation to be thinking about this for this problem. I’m not gonna read this but you
can if you want to just to know that there is in fact– we do
have an obligation under the law to be thinking ahead of problems
and not just always responding in the post halfway to
request for– for help. And then the last one is a
lot of times folks will talk about accessibility
being a burden. They aren’t aware
that the law looks at not your individual efforts
as being maybe over the top but they look at that
in the context of your– your business enterprise. So in my state, Utah
State University, if we were to claim an
undue burden, it would have to be an undue burden
against the entire system of higher education
in the State of Utah, because that’s our
business context. So it’s better to make
the wise decisions first. Okay. Just a couple
of last things– oh, I’ve gotta just zip by here. There have been some
letters that have gone out from the White
House to college and university presidents
recently talking about the problems with universities requiring
certain technologies that are inherently accessible. That was the Kindle DX
controversy and Amazon and Arizona State
University lost on that particular court case. I’ve already mentioned
the announced notes, the proposal we’re making
and that I don’t know if I mentioned this or not, but
President Obama signed on to– or signed the US intent to ratify the United
Nation’s Convention on Rights of Persons with Disabilities. So there’s just a lot of inertia
here that may be very helpful to campuses that would
choose to, you know, move in these directions. It is about 22, so we’re
a little bit beyond. I was very interested
in talking about some of our other initiatives. But– but I think we’ve ran out
of time and I wanna make sure that I get back to questions. I know I answered the
one about standards. I tried to talk a little bit
about you know, the efforts. And of course, part of what
you’re describing, doing– you’re working in CSS,
some of that isn’t required by access– for accessibility. Although, I will say,
it’s– it’s wonderful. I think it’s the best way to go. But it is hard if you are– a lot of folks that are doing
accessibility work see the accessibility piece is
not that much greater than what they would
have normally done. I would suspect that even if
you weren’t thinking about this, you would probably be
coding your CSS anyway because that’s kind of the correctional
standard these days. And I could be wrong. And I don’t know that
I got to your question.>>Well, a little bit the
scope and size of the problem.>>Yeah, it’s big.>>Yeah.>>It’s enormous.>>And kind of the–
some recent examples, I think help demonstrate that,
you know, one step forward, two steps back, it seems like–>>Yeah– yeah. Well, the problem
is national scope. When WebAIM talks
to institutions, we’re always talking
about– we’re– we’re encouraging people to
think about their own policy and implementation development
as occurring over years. Not like people panic,
oh my lord, it has to be accessible
tomorrow, but you know, what would be the
impacted by next– the beginning of
next academic year. You guys actually had
executive committee and faculty senate signing
on to the idea of the policy. What would happen if the following fiscal year
some resources were brought to bear? Some people could get the
training that they needed and that– that there were some
systems of support in place for folks that wanted to learn to do it better before
it becomes compulsory by the government. Anyway, let’s see. Yes.>>So, we’ve done a lot like
sort of the problems stated which was very helpful. And I’m– I’m really
curious about the solution, ideas in this room,
the next action. So for example, one thing I
noticed that for a lot of parts of Dartmouth’s web
services, professors and like student interns are
throwing these websites together so it’s not– there are
lots of different CMS’s that are being used
and then there’s a lot of just static HTML that people
are writing by hand, or with– with [inaudible]
editors, whatever, but– so I’m wondering if for
example, one recommendation that I might imagine would be
that schools work on having sort of one central CMS
that they really try to put all their content
into and that way, when a professor wants
a website for something, the professor provides
the content and– and can edit the content ideally
here through webinar-based. But– but then there is a
small group of professionals that are controlling the
market like it’s [inaudible] and making sure that
that’s accessible. Of course there are
tradeoffs there and– and one thing that that
means is that, you know, you’re centralizing this– this
work of creating the webpages and that has sort of goes
on [inaudible] in terms of like the beauty of
the decentralized web. So I’m wondering like is that
a recommendation and sort of what are the recommendations
for university [inaudible].>>You know, I certainly
would never rec– well, let me say this. I think it is easier for
any kind of regulation for things to be centralized. I would necessarily recommend
centralization as a way to get it at explicitly
at that part. I think the pushback– the
potential pushback that you get from a unit saying, oh, ah-ah,
here, given me the choice between needs for templates,
I choose none of them. You know, I don’t
like the structure. It didn’t work for me. I don’t like the visual
representation, back off. And if somehow that effort of creating a better
web environment or kind of policy stuff, all ends up
on the backs of accessibility, I think we’re actually
doing people with disability the disservice
because somehow during their– the reason that all
of this is happening. That said, it is of course
easier to do it that way, but that’s not the
only way to do it. I mean there are lots and
lots of models out there of how campuses that are very
decentralized have done things and done them by creating, you
know, communities practice of– of professional web developers. I mean, one of the things we
got to really deal with here in [inaudible] is
that departments with no resources get the
department head’s nephew’s, you know, neighbor
to do a website or at least that’s
happened in other places. I won’t say that
that’s happening here. But at what point are we gonna
say the people that design for Dartmouth College
have a minimum, you know, these kinds of skills and they
are part of our web community that meets monthly to talk
about issues, that shares pains and successes and really start
getting a lot of things going.>>We’ve got a sister
institution in our state that have– they have web
accessibility initiative and one person that since
everybody on their kind of web– all the webmasters one time
a month get a page of– somebody else’s page and
what they need to do is go through that institution’s
web policy, is the institutional
wordmark there. Are they using browser
safe colors? Do they conform to our
accessibility policy? Do they do this? Do they– is it secure? You know, or is, you know
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they do that and then that
feedback goes back to folks. So people are [inaudible]
they’re learning from one another. Hopefully, feedback isn’t
seen as punitive and critical but everyone is moving
the ball down the– down the field a little bit. That’s just one example but
there really are lots and lots of examples of ways in a
decentralized context to get, you know, get stuff
going and moving.>>[Inaudible] it’s
interesting, I mean I don’t– as I understand and I don’t
know if there’s anyone from computing services or like
related offices here but I– I don’t know that there is– I know that there are
organizations like [inaudible] that sort of hand out the
server space but I don’t know if there is sort of
a centralized body that you would go
to to say how– how is it that I go about
making the website or, you know, can you [inaudible]
my website[inaudible]?>>Right, right.>>Does anybody wanna
[inaudible]?>>Sarah, do you
wanna [inaudible]–>>Yeah. [ Simultaneous Talking ]>>Is there a central place
that people can go if they want to make their content
accessible?>>Well, but there is a– the organization that
you’re talking about, there is an organization
that’s responsible for, one CMX and supports probably about 80
percent of the administrative and academic department
websites on the campus. [ Simultaneous Talking ]>>Web services? Web services? And it’s in the computing
organization, so.>>Let me ask this question. Is the cri– should the
criterion be that the, what you call a piece of
context– or contents. Is– can be read by a particular
tool or can be presented by a particular tool or that
such a tool could be written? The difference would
be I write most of my class notes in plain text. So, the URLs are there. They can be too many
parts by any tool that [inaudible] the URL format. Yet it is not marked up as a
URL because I’m not writing in HTML, I’m writing in text. But this is an open format and one can easily
write to but– so–>>Well, what I can say is at
least to stay [inaudible] W3C, the Web Accessibility
Initiative. They have four basic principles
that all content needs to be perceivable, understandable, operable,
and robust. And of course they have
criteria for each of those. But to the extent, you know, you
said does it need to be readable or does it, you know,
to the extent that all content
can be perceived. So you always wanna
be multimodal. If I didn’t have vision, could I
get it in some auditory context? If I don’t have hearing,
can I get it in some kind of a
visual content? If I don’t have use of my
limbs, can I still operate it? You know, as long as
you’re hitting those things, then you probably are.>>So, [inaudible] the
question is, is there– is there a program that can
be used to pursue this page or should it be [inaudible]? Can such a program be written and then you let
whoever is interested in providing that
software, right?>>No, you’re thinking of
like a validation software, not unlikely [inaudible]?>>No, no, no. I am [inaudible]. I’m thinking of, I’m thinking of basically [inaudible]
mandating open formats propel us far enough along this
road or, you know–>>Well, there are just as
many problems in open formats as in proprietary ones. I mean the– the issue is maybe that people are not using
the tools that they have.>>Actually, is that–
is that a fact that they’re own [inaudible]– that the problems
are comparable?>>Well, here would
be an example. I can go into Google Docs right
now and create a document. And rather than using
the styles, rather than using headings, so
I can tab and hold it anyway, just as easily as I can tab
and hold it in the [inaudible] and that’s an example of
the same type of error, the lack of structure
semantic prediction in an open and a proprietary format. That’s not even, you know,
I’m not even writing in HTML. I can talk about the
presentation formats as well and talk about how I can
make errors in PowerPoint and I can make– I can
make errors in some of the open presentation
formats just as easily. So part of it really is
that the level of what it is as a user my understanding is
of what needs to be happening so that people can perceive
this document has structure. There really is a hierarchy
of headings and content or of a bulleted list and that
I didn’t just put a little asterisk– you know tab asterisk and content tab asterisk
[inaudible]. That really is a list. So it goes a little
bit beyond that.>>Traditionally open
formats had been meant to express more semantics. Unfortunately as
they were forced to emulate more proprietary
offerings, they– they did.>>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.>>So– but I see your point. Yeah.>>And I think that this issue
and I think we’re gonna wrap up here too, but I– and
this is something I learned from Sarah Horton actually when
I got here and began teaching about teaching people with
different disabilities or different ways of learning and that oftentimes doing
something a little bit differently as the
teacher is better for not just those
particular students but for everyone in the group. All students, you know, and
this is all kinds of things, that the exam isn’t
meant to be timed. If you’re not trying to teach–
you know, I don’t need to know if you know it quickly, I just
need to know if you know it, then take time out of the–
taking that out of the exam. And it sounds like you’re kind
of talking about the same things but I feel like I don’t– I don’t know those
things to the extent that I might be producing
content. I mean I think it’s
important that the developers and people we’re teaching
to write web content, to develop tools really need
to have that, but the rest of us need some of
those skills too to make sure we’re not
inadvertently producing content that isn’t accessible
when it’s– it’s just coz’ it’s easier
and that’s how I know how to do it or something.>>Are you pointing
folks, Sarah, to any internal here
is what you do list that I can bring up for folks?>>No, because it’s– as
I– as I mentioned earlier, we’re very much embarked on a
process of moving this forward but we’re sort of at the
brink of moving it forward, the college and having
more resources available. So I hope that within
the next month or so, we’ll have more to offer.>>I will say that I
don’t know a webbing site over in the article section. I think our introduction
is very strong and we do provide albeit a
little more technical device on constructing things that
have perceivable [inaudible] understand a little
bit robust content. It’s avail– I think
it’s available for non-technical people. But farther down, if you
start looking at the array of tutorials and all this
is just available out there, you know, you can see things that people use PowerPoint,
Word, OpenOffice. You know, lots and lots
of different things. And along with that I’ll also
just put in a quick plug. We’ve got a web accessibility
evaluation tool and then we’re going to– it’s
available [inaudible] use, so that they can look at
the level of accessibility that their web contact has. And hopefully those are
some places to start. The last thing I’m
gonna mention, and then I know we will wrap up,
is that– Sarah, do you think– have you guys answered
the question internally as to whether you would be more
likely to go 508 or [inaudible]?>>No we haven’t answered that.>>Okay. Alrighty. Section 508, the
federal set of standards, we’ve got a little checklist
for each of them so you can kind of get a sense– now the
pass and fail, that’s not– those were not federally
determined. That was our– that’s
our language but you can see a
text equivalent for non-text elements,
equivalent alternatives for multimedia presentations,
webpages, you know, can’t rely on color. So in a way, even just
understanding what some of these standards or
document shall be organized so that they’re readable. Now, I think some of
that is helpful to folks as they’re trying
to know what to do. So I would hope that folks
find some of the, you know, webbing materials that’s
useful until such time as your group have some– a
place for folks to land here.>>Okay.>>Well, thank you guys.>>Thank you so much.>>Now, you all stayed so much
longer than you should have and that will teach you
to invite me [inaudible]. [ Applause ]====Transcribed by Automatic
Sync Technologies====

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